The Signifying Douchebag? [Henry Gates arrest - racism?]

[treis]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

What would set them off is thinking they had a bust, and then finding out their target was innocent. I got hassled by the cops all the time when I was a DFH. I used to get pulled over and get my ar searched all the time because I had long hair and lived in a right wing conservative town. The cops always used to get really annoyed when they couldn’t find anything. It would piss them off that I did not have any drugs or weapons in the car. They acted like I was ssomehow getting away with something by being innocent.

One time a cop frisked me, drunk tested me, shone the flashlight around in my car, searched my trunk, couldn’t find anything and then told me “you got lucky, asshole.” Somehow, not being a criminal was sly and sneaky in their eyes. It’slike they feel cheated.

I suspect that something like that was going on in this case. They thought they were going to get to bust a minority breaking into a rich whitey’s house, and then this guy that they already decided before they got there was a criminal turns out to be the homeowner, and richer than them and completely insubordinate to them.

When the cops couldn’t find any drugs in my car, they used to contrive equipment citations just to be able to write something. I had a cop give me a ticket for having too much snow on a windshield that had a microscopic amount of snow on it. I had a cop write me a ticket for wearing sunglasses while driving at night. I’ve had a cop write me a ticket for taking my seatbelt off to get my drivers licence (and he SAW me take my seatbelt off, he was standing at the window).

I think that may be the equivalent of what these cops were doing. They weren’t going to let this guy get away without busting him for something.

Oh it all makes sense now. The cops planted a witness to call in a suspected burglary and goaded Gates into a racist rant just so they could arrest someone. Those sneaky bastards.

[tnetennba]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

Police reports are not cites. You can’t support the police account by citing the police account. That’s circular.

Much better than your baseless “believe me, I know!” assertions upthread.

[Frylock]

@cricetus

They’d left the house.

Yes. I’m not sure why you’re reminding me of that.

(I didn’t say they should have left the house. I said they should have left. As in, exited the situation. Been on their way. Ignored the yelling, and gotten gone.)

[tnetennba]

@Frylock

Yes. I’m not sure why you’re reminding me of that.

Because you seem to think otherwise.

[treis]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

Police reports are not cites. You can’t support the police account by citing the police account. That’s circular.

I am not citing the police account to support the police account. I am citing the police report as a witness report to the incident.

[Frylock]

@cricetus

Because you seem to think otherwise.

(See edited version of my post)

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

I still wonder why it is that the woman who called the cops didn’t recognize her own neighbor. Is it really possible that she lives close enough to see who’s going in the door, but this was the first time she’d ever seen Gates?

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@treis

Oh it all makes sense now. The cops planted a witness to call in a suspected burglary and goaded Gates into a racist rant just so they could arrest someone. Those sneaky bastards.

That’s not what I said at all, I’m saying that they were pissed because a call didn’t go the way they thought it was going to go, and because they guy they’d already pre-tagged as a scumbag was mouthing off to them.

And cite that Gates went off on a “racist rant?”

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@treis

I am not citing the police account to support the police account. I am citing the police report as a witness report to the incident.

The police report isn’t a witness to the dispute, it’s a participant in it.

Why do you think the police report has anymore likelihod of being true than gfates’ own account?

[Beware_of_Doug]

@Marley23

Whether intentionally or not, I think the police probably arrested Gates because he was embarrassing them in front of a crowd of people.

Police have it within their power to do that. Not their rights, but their power. They can always explain later.

[tnetennba]

No, no. Dio is right. We should ignore primary sources and just listen to the armchair quarterbacks.

[treis]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

That’s not what I said at all, I’m saying that they were pissed because a call didn’t go the way they thought it was going to go, and because they guy they’d already pre-tagged as a scumbag was mouthing off to them.

And I’m saying that’s just about the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard.

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

And cite that Gates went off on a “racist rant?”

You have a cite.

[MOIDALIZE]

@cricetus

Unless two people have just been seen breaking into the same house.

You start assuming people might be hiding some criminal act when someone saw them breaking into a house.

WHY WOULD THEY ANSWER THE DOOR?! Huh? A little old man answers the door and the officer’s first instinct is to grill him? That’s pretty stupid.

And would your opinion change if he hadn’t actually been seen breaking in, but a malicious neighbor had called in a burglary that wasn’t happening? Would you support the questioning of a man in his own home and the song-and-dance routine he had to go through with the cops?

Does the Fourth Amendment not mean anything to you, or is it more important that the police be hassled as little as possible in trying to do their jobs?

[Rhythmdvl]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

The police report isn’t a witness to the dispute, it’s a participant in it.

Why do you think the police report has anymore likelihod of being true than gfates’ own account?

Duh, because the policeman isn’t an elitist.

[tnetennba]

@MOIDALIZE

WHY WOULD THEY ANSWER THE DOOR?! Huh? A little old man answers the door and the officer’s first instinct is to grill him? That’s pretty stupid.

If someone breaks into my house, I hope that “coming to the door” is not enough for the police to wish him a good afternoon and leave.

And would your opinion change if he hadn’t actually been seen breaking in, but a malicious neighbor had called in a burglary that wasn’t happening? Would you support the questioning of a man in his own home and the song-and-routine he had to go through with the cops?

Are the police not supposed to respond to calls?

Does the Fourth Amendment not mean anything to you, or is it more important that the police be hassled as little as possible in trying to do their jobs?

There was no search here, and no seizure. Does the law mean nothing to you, or is it more important that rich important be people be hassled as little as possible when it appears to reasonable witnesses that a crime is in progress?

[Hampshire]

@Rhythmdvl

How viciously unAmerican.

Screw the principals behind the First Amendment. You must respect authority or you deserve to go to jail.

It’s not about “respectin autoriti” it’s about cooperating with public servants to make the thankless job that we pay them to do as effective as possible.

Cops seem to be stuck in a damned-if-we-do damned-if-we-don’t mode where people expect them to “Respond now! Respond now! Save me! Get the bad guys! Protect my stuff!” but heaven forbid they need some cooperation from you or you become the party in question.
Then it becomes “Why are you questioning ME! I don’t have to tell you nuthin! I’m innocent because I just told you so! Stop harassing ME!”

Honestly, if I was breaking into my own home and the cops showed up and threw me to the ground and questioned me up and down to make sure I really was the homeowner I would give them no hassle and actually be thankful that they went through all that trouble to protect my home.
This guy sounded like a thankless piece of shit.

[jayjay]

So, my question is…under what authority did they arrest him for yelling at them? Is that a crime?! What charges?

Even if everything that happened happened the way that the police report says, since when is yelling at the cops a crime?

[Rhythmdvl]

@cricetus

Does the law mean nothing to you, or is it more important that rich important be people be hassled as little as possible when it appears to reasonable witnesses that a crime is in progress?

The law – as opposed to mere brute force – means a lot to some of us. To some of us, it’s very important that people, rich/poor/black/white/whatever not be arrested for expressing our views, insulting or not.

[MOIDALIZE]

@cricetus

Are the police not supposed to respond to calls?

There was no search here, and no seizure. Does the law mean nothing to you, or is it more important that rich important be people be hassled as little as possible when it appears to reasonable witnesses that a crime is in progress?

Responding to a call is not a blank check to do whatever you want.

And no seizure? The man was arrested.

[MOIDALIZE]

@Hampshire

Honestly, if I was breaking into my own home and the cops showed up and threw me to the ground and questioned me up and down to make sure I really was the homeowner I would give them no hassle and actually be thankful that they went through all that trouble to protect my home.
.

:rolleyes: x 1,000,000