Gates is a primary source. You’re ignoring him.
What I’m saying is that we have no reason to automatically assume that the police report is more accurate than Gates’ account. The cops said it therefore it must be true is a very ovine approach to analyzing something like this.
Well, then. I retract the statement where I said otherwise.
Gates hasn’t given a public statement I am aware of, and his lawyer doesn’t dispute the major points of the police report and has confirmed several of them.
Never mind. I was whooshed.
Then why was he arrested? Why did the cop, in the process of leaving the scene turn around and arrest him? How is that not [Cartman]respectin’ authoriti[/Boss Hogg]?
We shouldn’t have the right to non-violently protest against the government? From you front porch?
I agree he sounds like a thankless piece of shit who just assumes that the cops are profiling. But, it appears the police did not really have any reason to arrest him. I guess technically you can be disturbing the peace on your property (think loud stereo at 2 a.m.) but this sounds more like a POP (pissing off the police) charge. I think a citation would have been sufficient since this is a civil matter.
Seizure refers to taking property as evidence.
And it’s a moot point anyway since Gates was arrested for doing something he was doing when they arrested him.
And that something is?
Being black?
RTFA.
A lot of cops seem to think disorderly conduct is some kind of catch-all offense such that they can arrest anyone who looks at them funny. While the contours change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, I know of nowhere that allows a charge of disorderly conduct for ranting at the police who are on your own property. So, all else aside, the officer was most likely in the wrong for arresting Gates even if his part of the story is the true one.
The police report seems to have been taken down though.
Why does it have to be race? Can’t the cops just be equal opportunity assholes?
Fourth Amendment:
You were lecturing me about the law, I recall…
And if you honestly believe a man yelling at the cops from his own porch is legitimate grounds for arrest, then you must be willing to put up with a lot of crap from authority in your life. Unless they’re rich and uppity, in which case you’ll rail against them from your computer.
I’m sure you mean well, but I don’t believe this for a second. Do you thank police for pulling you over when you speed? Did you thank airline employees for asking you if you really packed your own bags, and do you thank them today for searching you? Do you thank the guys at the liquor store or your favorite restaurant for asking for your ID when you order wine even if it’s been decades since that was necessary? It’s a nice idea to believe we’re all supposed to appreciate these well-intended inconveniences, but they’re almost always a pain in the ass.
So I submit that if you were a disabled university professor and pushing 60, and were just getting home from a trip overseas only to find you couldn’t open your front door, and then found the cops at the door suspecting you of buglary, you might be a grouch and overreact. It wouldn’t be a proud moment for you, but shit happens and most of us aren’t saints. You don’t have to be a giant asshole to go overboard in the circumstances Gates was apparently facing.
deleted … thought to ask a mod’s permission directly
But do you have to be an asshole – or at least a knee-jerk armchair quarterback – to call the police racist and demand they be reprimanded and/or fired? Can intelligent, thoughtful non-racist people see a little right and a little wrong to both sides, instead of immediately broadcasting their unspeakable outrage that meddling peasants dared to question a local VIP?
Bolding mine.
This seems to be the key issue with you in this, but nobody here sees it that way. All we see is a man being harrassed in his own home and arrested for getting angry about it.
The newspaper and blog articles I’ve read, and the comments, emphasize Gates’ eminence. I would say that here people are more equal oppportunity haters of the police, but I still find the position knee-jerk. Not to mention inane and poorly argued.
If people believe that racism played a role in this, for them to ask “Didn’t they know who he was?” has little to do with elitism, and more to do with wondering why the police would suspect a distinguished academic of being a common burglar.
I don’t give a crap about his eminence.
I don’t hate the police.
I will accept the police report as a true and complete representation of the events that took place.
I will accept that the there was not a hint of racism in the policeman’s motivations or actions.
I will not accept a policeman who arrests a man for exercising his First Amendment rights on his front porch.
I will not accept a policeman who, after recognizing that he is the sole recipient of someone’s diatribe, lacks the judgment to end the scene by continuing to vacate the premises, but instead returns to make an arrest.
I will not accept a law that requires an unreasonable degree of civility or decorum when dealing with public officials, be they politicians or policemen. The line for unreasonable is equal to all other First Amendment considerations (e.g., no threats, etc. are out).