The Smartest Guy in the world.. maybe

About that Sidis guy. It seems evident that he had a great aptitude for math, linguistics and perhaps other areas of study. Now, so, he’s ridiculed for being a bookkeepper, a clerk etc. Perhaps he found more joy in these ares of work that perhaps brought him challenges and novelty that weren’t available to him in other areas of academic life. I would propose that some of the greatest joys in life come from achieving a goal you struggle for. If the sciences came too easy for him, maybe he was just looking to find joy in a simple life or, better yet, finding joy by thumbing his nose at the expectations of the society that wanted him to do more with his talents.

He may have been a miserable bastard or merely just wanted to be left alone. I don’t think he owed society any more than he gave, despite what ‘we’ thought we were owed.

I can only hope that someday my innocuous existence is mulled by ‘The Great One’ himself in a column that receives the adulation of the unwashed masses.

-UnderDog
P.S. If I had known Sidis, we would have had a great time winning bar bets in the local pubs…

what column are you speaking of?


“I play the fool, Pyotr Alexandrovitch, to make myself agreeable.”
–Fyodor Pavlovitch, Brothers Karamazov

When posting in this forum, it helps if you include a link to the column being discussed.

Why did William Sidis, the world’s (2nd) smartest human, achieve so little in life? (10-Dec-1999)


Quand les talons claquent, l’esprit se vide.
Maréchal Lyautey

This Sidis guy doesn’t sound any wierder than David Souter or Howard Hughes or Salinger. I have a hard time with “society’s expectations.” I say Sidis is within his rights to do what he wanted to do. Suppose he had written a couple of books that are now irrelevant and forgotten on some linguistic or scientific matter. The graduate libraries are crammed with such tomes.

I roomed in college with a shy guy from very rural NC who had gotten an 800 on SAT math, did his senior honors essay on number theory and went to grad school at U of Chi in math. This was the late 70s and he dropped out to start his own computer company. No, he wasn’t Gates or Jobs, and his company went bankrupt. I saw him a few years later in Raleigh working in a grocery. Then a few years later he cashed in his millions he made investing in software companies.

Yeah, society thinks you are a success if you have 7 figures or you win a “prize” such as a Nobel or Pulitzer or an Oscar.

Big deal. Would Sidis have been a “failure” if he had goneoff in WWI and died of dysentary in the trenches?

aaah, thanks.
just read it.

how sad.
underdog, i agree with you that he didn’t “owe society” anything (unless he himself might have felt that he did, given that he participated in socialist activities), and can be whatever the hell he wants to be. but, i highly doubt that he took clerical positions so that he could “find joy in something to struggle for as other things came too easily”. in fact, to say that all of mathematics and science came “too easily” for him is quite strange, indeed (are you proposing that he is on the level of Gauss, for example?). more likely, he just wanted to get as far as possible from his, in my humble opinion, fucked up parents. if sarah sidis wanted so badly to raise a “control system with a virtually infinite database” she should have done so in a sterile lab, not wasted a soul upon just that. none of us knows sidis personally, and so i cannot conjecture much further upon either this man or his “mother”. but, it just seems to me that he might have actually created something beautiful if he had not had his unfortunate upbringing.

anyway, it is interesting how cecil includes “lord knows i’ve been there myself.”
hehehe. cecil is so funny. and, even if he were that smart, i think that all his smartness IS for his own good and ours! hahaha.

ok, back to studying for the damn finals now… argh


“I play the fool, Pyotr Alexandrovitch, to make myself agreeable.”
–Fyodor Pavlovitch, Brothers Karamazov

btw, getting an 800 on SAT math is not a big deal, as myself and many friends of mine have the same (and, similar on verbal). so, i also know a lot of people who get those scores, go to college early, get magna cum laude, go on to graduate school, but then do not want to be anything other than game programmers (which i think is a cool job anyway though) or just programmers in computer companies or hardware designers. they don’t even want to do research necessarily. but, heck, they are awesome people still, and i know they don’t “owe” anything to society. jesus, where the hell did the whole subject of “owing to society” come from anyway?? this is not even a socialist country!!!

well, heck with the finals. hehehe


“I play the fool, Pyotr Alexandrovitch, to make myself agreeable.”
–Fyodor Pavlovitch, Brothers Karamazov

Hey, I agree he probably didn’t skip to work every morning but my point is, he made his choices and such as they were they didn’t jibe with societies perceptions so this guy gets portrayed as a ‘genius loser’.

If he was lecturing mathmeticians at age 11 after only 6 weeks of study at the college level (I admit I’m making some assumptions here based on what’s in Cecil’s column) then, yeah, I would say he probably got bored with the challenges of Science because… (and here’s my point)…
he had no love for it. The truly great scientists/thinkers make their discoveries because they can’t NOT strive to discover them. He found math/science as perhaps easy as you and I would find sharpening a pencil. Now, did he LOVE bookkeepping? Who knows, maybe, maybe not, but at least it’s something he chose for himself, he got away from his parents, lived his own life for better or worse and that’s that.

I guess we could change the argument somewhat to a Darwinian definition and ask if he had kids thereby continuing his genes.

In short: They guy was brilliant, wasn’t that excited about the challenges of academia, wasn’t a fan of capitalism hence the socialist bent and really had issues with his parents. I guess we should be thankful he was born when he was or we might be dealing with another Unabomber.

Final thought; I wonder if his media lambasting had more to do with his Socialist leanings than his lack of ambition? If he’d been found to be a church-going, hardworking farmer he might have been cast in a different light altogether.

-UnderDog

P.S. I only got 720 on the math SAT but, I had a blast in college… and not really due to academic pursuits. All you 800 guys, why don’t you go work on the Unified Field Theory or something… You owe me that!<G,DR>

Wow… My <G, DR> got snipped at the end of my message… Talk about unfortunate snippage.

Just to be clear… No one owes me anything except my friend Tony who owes me $10.00 and reads this forum occasionally. Pay up bud!

hehehe, yeah i am not interested in that damn GUT after knowing a guy “too closely” in that area… i am afraid that there may be some tendency of theistic arrogance that goes along with the “grand universalness” of the GUT. at least that has been my experience…
besides, i am quite content with being a math and computer science major as is, thank you very much.

anyway, back to the damn topic distracting me before my ee final. i don’t disagree with you, underdog. but, aside from that there is also the fact that he stayed so long in math/science/academia --until he was unable to stay in it due to “students creating problems”. if he didn’t like math/science to start with, then it is sad that he did it for so long. if he did like it, then it is sad that he was unable to function while doing it.
in any case, it is UNFORTUNATE. and, i still have not grown fond of his parents, no matter what the hell genes they passed to him.


“I play the fool, Pyotr Alexandrovitch, to make myself agreeable.”
–Fyodor Pavlovitch, Brothers Karamazov

What happened to Sidis is what happened to many child prodigies… puberty.

The pubescent hormone rush physically changes the brain and opens up a world of hormonally influenced social relationships which takes more than keen mathematics and memory to figure out.

Peace.

hmmm, moriah, interesting thought. :slight_smile:

however, it is strange that cecil mentioned nothing about sidis’ personal relationships then. ???


“I play the fool, Pyotr Alexandrovitch, to make myself agreeable.”
–Fyodor Pavlovitch, Brothers Karamazov

You have finally lifted the lid off the trashcan!

Cecil is Sidis’ illegitimate son! Check the date…it all works out.

But who’s the momma?

Irene Adler.


Uke

If I were you folks I’d stay away from casting doubt on Cecil’s lineage particularly where Momma Adams is concerned. Wrath of God is one thing, Wrath of Cecil? No thanks!

Interesting point about Sidis’ relationships. I’m going to go dumpster diving on the internet and see what I turn up. I’ll be back later.

Cecil said that 11-year-old Sidis was the
second youngest person to enroll at Harvard.
That just begs the questions, who was the
youngest, when did s/he enroll, how old was
s/he, and whatever happened to 'em?

Also, Im going to reveal my extreme youth,
ignorance, or naivety here…Ike, who’s
Irene Adler?


Settle for what you can get, but first ask for the world.
–Ka’a Orto’o, Gnomic Utterances C i

I’m back. Check out: http://members.aol.com/popvoid/sidis.html

Great little essay there on Willy and addresses the parental aspect. In short, the author’s claim, and he seems credible, is that Boris Sidis wasn’t a slave driving father and in fact Willy’s troubles seem to all be originating from the media coverage he got.

I like this article especially because it seems to back up my own previous knee-jerk commentary which started this thread. This old Dog can still shoot from the hip and be on target once in a while, at least according the above article.

Still no mention of relationships which I’m beginning to believe weren’t a big factor in his life but no idea if he ever ‘dated’.

There’s actually quite a bit of coverage on the fellow but I think I’ve satisfied my curiosity for now and if I dig any deeper all I’m going to do is feel sorry for the guy so I’m going to take solace in casting 1/2 informed judgements from afar and let him pass into the anonymity that he craved in life.

—Rest in Peace Willy. I’ll think of you next time I get a street car transfer!

-UnderDog

Be sure to read the other Sidis Topic: www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000375.html

I’d like some feedback for my opinions on the matter.


>< DARWIN >
__L___L

How about some clarification on IQ? Cecil disparages the estimate that Sidis’ IQ was 250-300 (“on what basis could the scale be run up that high?” he asks rhetorically). My understanding is that IQ (“intelligence quotient”) is simply the ratio of mental age to chronological age. So if Silis is as intelligent as a 9-year-old at age three, he’s got an IQ of 300. Does this not jibe with what we know of Silis?

That said, I see problems with the whole IQ concept for adults. The concept assumes that mental ability increases linearly with age. Does it? If a 25-year-old has an IQ of 300, does it mean he has the mind of a 75-year-old? Would you want that distinction?

Kara;
Read some Sherlock Holmes. Specifically A Scandal in Bohemia.

She was the only person ever to outsmart the Great Detective.

PhineasJWhoopy asks:

> How about some clarification on IQ? Cecil
> disparages the estimate that Sidis’ IQ was
> 250-300 (“on what basis could the scale be
> run up that high?” he asks rhetorically).
> My understanding is that IQ (“intelligence
> quotient”) is simply the ratio of mental
> age to chronological age. So if Silis is
> as intelligent as a 9-year-old at age
> three, he’s got an IQ of 300. Does this
> not jibe with what we know of Silis?
>
> That said, I see problems with the whole
> IQ concept for adults. The concept assumes
> that mental ability increases linearly
> with age. Does it? If a 25-year-old has an
> IQ of 300, does it mean he has the mind of
> a 75-year-old? Would you want that
> distinction?

There are two definitions for I.Q. The old one was, as you suggest, to first define the ability to pass a given test for a given age as having that mental age. Then if a three-year-old passes a test which assigns him a mental age of nine, he has an I.Q. of 100 times the quotient of 9 divided by 3. The problem with this definition is that it’s impossible to make a person’s I.Q. be constant over his lifetime, and that was supposed to be the part of the idea of the I.Q. Thus this definition hasn’t been popular for a while.

When Marilyn Vos Savant claims to have an I.Q. of 228, she’s using the old definition. Apparently she passed a test which gave her a mental age of 16 when she was 7. For a long time I was convinced she was simply lying about her I.Q., since I only knew the current definition of the term.

The modern definition doesn’t require one to define the idea of a mental age at all. All you have to do is to give a test to all of a certain group (all children of a given age or all adults) and rank all of them in order according to how well they did on the test. This modern definition of I.Q. is based on the idea of a standard deviation. Get yourself a statistics book and look up the term. Here’s an URL with some sketchy definitions of statistical terms:
http://nilesonline.com/stats

An average I.Q. is 100. One standard deviation in this system is 15 I.Q. points. If you’re one standard deviation above average, you have an I.Q. of 115, and if you’re one standard deviation below the mean, you have an I.Q. of 85. Roughly, to be one standard deviation above the average (115), you need to be better than five-sixths of the people who took the test. To be two standard deviations above the mean (130), you need to be better than 49 out of 50 people who took the test. To be three standard deviations above the mean (145), you need to be better than all except 1 person in 700 of those who took the test. To be four standard deviations above the mean (160), you need to be better than all except 1 person in 30,000 of those who took the test.

As it happens, an I.Q. of 200, which would be six and two-thirds standard deviations above the average, corresponds to about 1 person in 100 billion. Since 100 billion is approimately the total number of human beings who have ever lived, an I.Q. of 200 is the highest value that could even theoretically be assigned to any person. Practically, the highest value that most I.Q. tests will assign is 160, since it’s hard to give the test to more than 100,000 people when you’re calibrating the test. Even a sample of 100,000 people means that you can only expect three or four of them to score above 160 (four standard deviations above the mean).

Thus, using the modern definition of I.Q., Marilyn Vos Savant can only have an I.Q. of 228 if she’s claiming she’s not only the smartest person who ever lived, but also the smartest being who ever lived in this galaxy.