Ah, I just found it, sorry I figured it wouldn’t be up on Youtube, and just scanned the thread to see if anyone thought Meadow got whacked…
Not that I think that’s what happened, I think** Jackknifed Juggernaut **is right, and it’s left to the viewer to decide.
They are not supposed to hurt family but remember Tony told his family to hide out to be safe during the war with the NY crew.
And there was that creepy New York guy who kind of screwed with Meadow. OK, nothing near a death, but he did make those rude sexual come ons to her which clearly was NOT done.
Plus the Italians who were hired to waste Phil accidentally killed Phil’s goomah and her father-in-law. OK, a goomah isn’t a wife, but I do get the sense that by this time, they were playing very fast and loose with the rules of what is and isn’t done.
And aren’t there rules about killing made guys that were broken left and right throughout the series?
Did the NY guy know who Meadow was? Can’t recall. I know for payback Tony beat the guy up.
For killing made guys they did break rules in some cases. But remember Johnny Sack asked if he could whack Ralph for making the joke about his wife and he was told no - but he was going to do it anyway until he called it off. But at least he asked for permission.
That was accidental, though. They thought the father-in-law was Phil. But I don’t know what the rules really are.
Yes. And he got a curb stomp for his trouble.
Basic mafia rule is to whack a made guy the boss has to OK it. Johnny Sack asked Carmine Sr. if he could whack Ralph and he was told no - it was too extreme. Carmine said they should just make Ralph pay money for the insult to Johnny’s wife.
A non made guy can be whacked without permission.
Ok, that’s what I thought. Tony certainly broke those rules more than a few times, but aside from Tony B. I thought the others stayed within the lines.
True, but if you’re going to kill a guy at his mistress’s house, it’s not such a stretch to imagine she might get in the way.
ETA: As for made guys getting killed, there’s also Ralphie. I guess Ritchie doesn’t count since it was Janice. Though weren’t they going to kill him anyway? I guess they had a good reason for that, anyway…
This is what I’m thinking may lead away from him being shot: the mafia hits on the show generally involved an individual being ambushed, right? While they could shoot Tony and run out, isn’t it plausible that either (a) this implies it wasn’t a death scene, since the family is present – OR – they, perhaps, all got killed?
Mobsters were usually alone when they were whacked, yes. But then again, when Gerry Torciano got killed, Silvio and their dates both survived. The killer shot Gerry a few times and ran. The bottom line seems to be that these guys will kill someone who might be a witness, but unless they’re sending a message, they won’t go out of their way to do kill extra people. After they kill someone their first priority is getting away. And Carmela, Meadow and A. J. don’t know anything significant about Tony’s business anyway.
In Goodfellas the main reason Tommy got whacked was he killed Billy Batts who was a made man.
Also you are not even supposed to beat up a made guy without permission.
Tony was the boss, though, so if he wanted someone dead someone got dead, all within the rules.
The implications for death are fast and furious - the opening shot of Tony asleep as though in a coffin, the flashbask to the discussion about never knowing what hit you, the Ade/tiger looking over Tony’s shoulder, the diner’s triptych, the last supper motif, the onion rings as communion wafers, the guy taking an interest but walking past, the POV series… - but in the end, the viewer is invited to take a post-modern view on the ending.
In essence, the work stands alone and each viewer interprets it as they see fit. I think that Chase was pretty clear in that he saw that Tony was killed, and from the interviews in the week after I think that he resents the audience for failing to ‘get it’ on their own - the audience disappointed Chase right throughout the series - but because he didn’t make it explicit he doesn’t get the final interpretation.
If you think that Tony survived, it’s a valid reading and one that’s not really open for criticism. Take out of the ending what you want to take out of it.
It is Meadow’s POV in the sense that we see Tony’s face from her angle, but considering she comes in from the door which are a couple of meters away, it’s not seen through “her eyes”, as it were. Meadow’s real POV would be much more wide angle and she would see a big part of the diner. Including the murder coming out from the men’s room.
Quite right - it’s just a set-up shot for the Tony’s POV shot rather than being from the POV of whoever’s coming in (in which case the shots would be in motion.
One little thing that makes me itch is that if you’re going to wack someone you wouldn’t keep making obvious stares at your target.
My old granny would have got a bit suspicious if she’d been stared at how ever briefly by our suspected assassin.
Still think that Tony was killed though.
The problem with that is it was a completely sanctioned hit. Tony was given consent by Butch (Phil’s underboss or consigliere, I forget which) to kill Phil because Butch realized Phil was taking the whole thing too personally and was uneasy that Phil was getting pissed at him for failing to kill Tony first.
So there wasn’t anybody left gunning for Tony anymore (any more than usual, anyway).
The whole show had so many story lines that left loose ends and build ups that often just petered out that I think the ending was a perfect reflection of the entire series. Far from a fuck you, it was true to itself to literally the last shot. Add that to the fact that David Chase clearly doesn’t consider Tony dead if he’s willing to even think about movies and you’re left with Tony at the end of his driveway in his bathrobe and slippers picking up tomorrow morning’s Star-Ledger.