The Spawn of Satan lives next door!

The BBQ Pit
21

It takes a whole lot of chocolate to kill a dog though.

From your own cite, Cerri:

A dog that weighs 55 lbs would have to eat 3.08 lbs of chocolate in a less than 18 hour period for it to be lethal.

So if the dog weighs 27.5 lbs it’ll take 1.5 lbs of chocolate in that same amount of time.

If the dog weighs 13.75 lbs it’ll have to eat 12.5 ounces of milk chocolate to kill itself.

If it weighs 7.15 lbs, it’s going to take 7 ounces of milk chocolate for a fatal dose.

I doubt the posters here are talking about an entire box of chocolate, or even an entire candy bar, which typically is going to have less chocolate in it than 7 ounces. In fact, a solid milk chocolate bar from Sarris Candies (a chocolate company that does not use any paraffin in their chocolate) contains 2 ounces of chocolate.

So that 7.15 lb dog would have to eat 3.5 Sarris milk chocolate bars for a fatal dose. Given all day with a few of those bars, maybe. But what these guys are joking about is maybe a half ounce chocolate laxative?

Not enough to kill a 7 lb dog.

22

Also, how do YOU know the dog was abused? you psychic or something.

To the rest of the board I apologise for the bad language, this is not normally my method but this dipstick really got on my:: ahem:: tit.

23

Again, you’re blaming the DOG for the OWNER’S irresponsibility and mishandling. I find it hard to believe that you can’t see that. I’m sorry you’ve been bitten by dogs, there’s alot of really shitty dog owners out there, and I sympathize entirely. People who don’t care that they have nervous or aggressive dogs, or do not know how to handle an aggression problem, or just plain don’t care. It’s a big, fat, hairy lot of bullshit, but IT IS NOT THE DOG’S FAULT.

As for how I know the dog in geewhiz’s story was abused, I didn’t HAVE to be psychic, it was stated in the OP. Being left alone outside 24/7 in all weather IS abuse, and make no mistake about it.

Look, I firmly believe if a dog attacks someone in a vicious manner, it should be put down, period. If it’s a dog with an aggression problem due to fear or nervousness, that should be dealt with, and again, if it cannot be solved, it should be put down for both the dog’s sake and the people around it. It should be put down in a HUMANE manner by the proper authorities, not fucking tortured with laxatives, irritating ultrasonic noises, chased it with a fucking chainsaw around a house, or as in another thread I read earlier this morn, threatened with a fist down it’s throat.

As far as I’m concerned, you should have to prove that you’re not only able to well care for an animal, but also able to provide it with PROPER training, socialization, and vetinary care so that it does NOT do things like bite people who do not deserve it. (Except for the obvious examples of police dogs and guard dogs who have been PROPERLY trained to attack, and also trained to not attack except when commanded to do so, and release the second it’s handler gives the command).

It’s a god damn mother-fucking shame it’s set up so that any fucking moron can own an animal and not act in a responsible manner with it, and it’s an even BIGGER shame that people who abuse animals, neglect animals, etc. do not suffer more severe penalties when their dog injures someone, if it is proved that the animal’s temperment is due to improper socialization and lack of training.

There are no bad dogs, only bad and irresponsible owners. Buy a highly active dog breed and ignore it for hours on end, give it no room to run, and no interesting toys to play with and it’s no surprise to anyone who knows dogs that they end up habitual barkers or highly destructive. Buy a small, nervous breed and don’t socialize or train it as to what’s proper behavior, and don’t be real shocked when it bites out of nervous aggression or fear and pisses all over your house every time it gets scared. People do not research the dog breeds they choose oftentimes and make sure the particular breed they’re looking at would be a good match for their households…they buy it cause it’s sooooo cute. This is why our shelters are overflowing, and dogs are put down by the hundreds or thousands every day.

Anecdotal story of a related nature-

I used to own a 135 pound female Rottweiler, who I in fact stole as a puppy from her original neglectful and abusive owners (they lived next door to some friends of ours in rural Indiana). At 4 months old this puppy was kept tied to the bumper of a derelict car in the yard by means of an electrical cord tied tightly round her neck. In 90+ degree temperatures these people wouldn’t bother giving her water, she often didn’t have food. My friend did both these things for this poor puppy (couldn’t take it, since he already had a dog that did NOT like other dogs) Her owners never played with her, except my friend who’d go over to pet her and when we were over one day and heard her barking out of boredom we watched as the man of the house walked out to the yard, and kicked her so hard he sent her sailing. It was all my friend and boyfriend could do to keep me from going over there and beating the living fuck out of him, and I stole the dog out of their yard that night. Best thing I ever did, and I’d do it again in a heartbeat.

Scariest looking dog you ever saw when she was fullgorwn and 135 pounds of solid muscle, or so hundreds of people told me… usually right before they crossed the street to avoid having to walk past her. chuckles

When I rescued her, I took her to a vet right off to make sure she was healthy, got her shots, and had no thus-far permanent temperment problems (she was desperately needy of attention, but kind of gun-shy, she had a bad chewing problem directed at my shoes which took some time to get rid of, and crate training for housebreaking was an impossibility, she did NOT like being left alone in her crate when she knew there were people in the house sleeping). I spent a couple thousand dollars for training for her, which I went thru with her, from puppyhood. Since crate training for housebreaking wasn’t possible, I had to get up every 3 hours to take her out till she was housebroken. I took her EVERYWHERE I could to socialize her. I lived in downtown Chicago at the time, and there’s a surprising amount of places that allow dogs. I took her into bars, we dined together at outdoor restaurants, and she LOVED Navy Pier (I would take her there for the fireworks shows so she could get used to more loud noises) we’d make it a point to walk under the El tracks when there was trains on them, we walked down busy streets with lots of loud scary sounds for a puppy. I let all manner of people handle her and pet her.

You know how this poor neglected, untrained and abused puppy I rescued turned out?

She was the sweetest dog imaginable. She’d cry when walking past parks if I wouldn’t let her go romp with the kids playing there. The kids could climb all over her, be very rough with her, tug on her, and there were a few little bastards I’d even caught hitting or kicking her, and all she EVER did in retalitation was dump 'em off her back, and give the little shits a puppy-dog eye look that said “was that really necessary?” She had ZERO dog-dog aggression problems (thank you Wiggly Field Dog Park!!). Even the time at a year old, when a lab bit her so badly on her belly she required 24 stitches, she did not respond to the dog in kind. Nothing ever rattled my dog, she was completely unflappable. She hardly ever barked beyond the occasional grunt-woof and trot to the door to let you know someone was here. She retained the protectiveness and alertness of the Rottweiler breed with none of the aggression problems several unwary Rottweiler owners have experienced when they bought a breed of dog they didn’t really have a fucking clue how to handle.
Moral of the story? When your neighbor has a “bad dog”, it’s 9 times out of 10 the owner’s fault or neglect that produced or exacerbated the problem. Don’t blame the dog, IT doesn’t know any better. Place the blame squarely where it belongs, in the owner’s laps.

24

Here here, Cerri. A pet is 100% the owner’s responsibility - for better or worse. My two cats are great pets, because we love them and look after them. My sister’s small dog is a terror that I don’t want to be around because she hasn’t trained her and has no time for her. Call animal control, geewhiz. Do what you can to give this dog a chance at a good life.

25

Call animal control. Or try to steal the dog and take it in yourself. Get the dog out somehow.

[hijack]

Cerri - I agree that people need to be able to show that they’re responsible enough for a pet. Or, at least be delt with appropriatly.

I’m involved (slightly, due to the size of my apt) in reptile rescue, mostly the smaller snakes. Where I used to work (only for about 3months, 3rd shift), people now know me as the Snake Lady, and when I go grocery shopping, I get people stopping me and asking, “My friend has a snake, it’s sick, what’s wrong with it? Is there a vet we can take it to?”

I’ve thusfar adopted two snakes from a friend in Chicago, because he couldn’t keep them anymore. I’m quite possibly about to adopt a 6.5" Red Tail Boa from a friend round here who’s too afraid to take her snake out of its cage. All these animals were well-fed, if not handled. That much commitment makes me happy, compared to what some people do.

I’ve heard stories from friend about what folks do to reptiles.

One of my friends rescued a pair of Yellow Anacondas (8’ male, 11’ female) from a man who had them in a 2’x4’x4’ cage together, with a water bowl coated in algae. He fed them two wild-caught squirrels a month - since the female was larger, she usually got both. when my friend picked them up, the female was so skinny that he could feel her ribs. She just barely had enough muscle to hold onto his arm. The male couldn’t even keep a grip on him. Do you know how long it takes to starve snakes that size? Ball Python males, once they reach about 3’, will regularly go off food for 3-6 months a year. To brumate a female to get her ready to breed, you cut their food consumption to about 1/3 during winter month, and then when they’re gravid, they won’t eat until they lay eggs - and if you don’t take the eggs away, she’ll refuse food until they hatch. None of this will starve a snake.

I have another story, about an iguana. But this one’s really gorey, so I’ll put it in a spoiler.

An 11-y/o boy’s parents bought him an iguana. By the time he got reported, the child had done the following to it: severe burns to one leg and tail, burned off about half of it’s spines, and had REMOVED THE FACIAL SCALES SO THAT YOU WERE STARING INTO IT’S NASAL CAVITY. Its head was no longer recognizable as an iguana’s. It was just an open wound. It was still alive by the time a reptile rescuer got there.

Through my experiences with reptile abuse, I’ve lost a lot of respect for the SPCA. I’ve only heard of one case where they took away a reptile due to neglect rather than “you can’t have that here”: Someone had a baby alligator in a place where `gators were allowed. Since he only fed it, er, as often as you feed a gator (I know snakes, not gators), someone complained that it was being underfed. It wasn’t, but it was taken away.

What did the SPCA do with the iguana mentioned above? They called a reptile rescue, who promptly got it put down. Any criminal charges filed? No. Nothing.

I’ve found them to be highly negligent of reptiles, not to mention ignorant.

When I tried to adopt a cat, I mentioned that I was involved in rescue, and had 4 Ball Pythons (at that time). The woman actually asked me, “Are those poisonous?” My head nearly exploded. I got denied the cat because they thought that if my 3’ BP escaped, that it would eat said cat. What? WHAT? She was completely ignorant of the following BP facts:

  1. No, they’re not venomous. They’s a constrictor. Damnit.

  2. BPs are know for prey imprinting, which means that if they’ve been fed only rats, they’ll ONLY EAT RATS. Not cats, no matter how hungry they got. Wild caught BPs have been known to starve to death because they couldn’t get their wild prey.

  3. Even a 5’ BP couldn’t hurt a cat. Cats have CLAWS. And big TEETH. And they wiggle a lot. A best-case scenario of cat vs BP is that they both end up dead, instead of just the snake.

  4. A snake, literally, couldn’t eat a cat. My longest BP (4.5" - as big as one will ever get [a rare female will reach 5’]) would have to be 4x as big around as he currently is to have the slightest chance of eating a cat. They can only eat something slightly larger than it’s own diameter. They don’t chew, nimwit.

All of this was confirmed by animal control, and I STILL got denied because the lady STILL thought my snakes posed a threat. NO THEY DIDN’T.

If you’re supposed to know something about animals, know something about animals other than cats and dogs. Reptiles feel pain too, even if they’re not cute and furry. There’s a lot of abuse going on, and it’s up to private rescuers to do something about it.

Sorry, this is a touchy subject for me.

[/hijack]

26

** Cerri ** It’s obvious you are a dog lover, fine, I have no problem with that and appreciate and also understand what it is you are saying in your posting above.

I don’t like dogs, never have, never will.

Not only do I consider them filthy animals but I also consider them dangerous ones regardless of size or how they were reared.

A story for you.
My wife liked dogs so we bought one.
We treated the animal in a humane manner, we did not leave it out in the garden 24/7, we fed it well and we took it to the vets for its shots and also for regular check ups.
One Sunday morning for no apparent reason the animal attacked my 8 year old son, an attack that required 16 stitches in his arm to repair the damage done to him by this well fed, well looked after dog.
The dog was destroyed HUMANELY but I tell you this, if I hadn’t been restrained by a neighbour I would have battered it to death.

This exchange of views is ended as far as I am concerned.

27

No one’s saying you have to like dogs, but on a board based on fighting ignorance, animal abuse and torture, imo, shouldn’t be something to promote or advocate.

28

This is * definitely [i/] my last post on the subject.

Promote or advocate * WHAT * liking dogs?

Don’t you think that our resources would be put to better use promoting and liking all ** Humanity [b/] rather than some dumb animal

29

Earlier in this thread, you advocated hurting the neglected animal that geewhiz was (rightfully) complaining about. Nobody’s asking you to start liking dogs, but advocating hurting them is not fair ball, in my opinion.

And just for the record, I don’t think our resources would be put to better use helping humanity rather than “dumb” animals. I think how we treat our animals is an excellent indicator of how we treat each other as a society. I would like to see people being good to their animals as well as each other, but if I had to choose, I would rather see people being good to their animals; animals are all but helpless in their care, and have almost no rights or anyone to speak up for them; other humans can fight back and look after themselves, and have many agencies looking after them.

30

Eh? All I said was I don’t think this board is an appropriate place to advocate animal abuse, since being okay with abusing animals is clearly a highly ignorant and immoral attitude, imo. YMMV

As far as promoting and liking all humanity…nah, no thanks, as the old bumper sticker states, the more people I meet, the more I like my dog. This does not however mean I’d think abusing humans is a good thing.

31

I don’t like dogs simply because I’ve known too many people missing pieces of fingers/chunks of their face/have huge scars from being bitten. So, I won’t have a dog. Won’t hurt a dog, but would never have one around a child. Eeever.

I was pet-sitting my dad’s foster Boston Terrier over the weekend. This is, like, a 9y/o dog who’s never bitten or snapped before. I almost lost a hand.

Snakes can bite you, yeah. But it really doesn’t hurt until the get above 6’, and they can leave scars, but not take away body parts. And, no matter how long I’ve had one, I realize that they’re still wild, so I have to be aware constantly.

With dogs, people think, “Aww, what a cute doggie. It’s never bitten before, and it’s a domesticated animal.” BS! Dogs are dangerous. Something like 17 people a year are killed by dog bites, and lord knows how many other people are wounded every year.

I don’t like dogs. I find them to be dangerous. BUT I don’t want them outlawed. I just wish people would have the same respect for my snakes.

32

I like my dogs better than most people, spogga.
They’re better behaved, more loving, and have far more generous spirits than the majority of the humans I’ve come into contact with during my 47 years on the planet.
Nobody has to like dogs but by the same token, to blame the dog for the obvious neglect of its’ owners or advocate harming it, is just plain wrong.

33

I think you struck gold here. Some like this but for dogs:

http://pestcontrol.netfirms.com/cat_repelling_ultrasonic_devices.htm[\url]

34

Strangely enough, we use them as service and guide animals (in the program I’m with, we do it with children!)…

Please don’t lump all dogs in the same category. There are thousands upon thousands of certified therapy dogs out there who make a huge difference in people’s lives (go visit the Delta society website, or the Therapy Dogs International websites). There are thousands upon thousands of guide dogs and service dogs who help their owners live independently. There are thousands upon thousands of Search And Rescue dogs who will put their lives on the line trying to find those trapped in avalanches, or in rubble following an earthquake, not to mention those who do urban and wilderness rescue. There are thousands upon thousands of dogs sniffing out bombs, and drugs, and criminal’s trails, or even landmines.

Okay, so there are good dogs and bad dogs, good owners and bad owners. In the bad owners category, I’m more worried about the over-protective lady who believes “sweet little Muffy would never bite!” than the guy who raises dangerous pitbulls.

If you know a bad dog, usually all you have to do is follow the leash to the other end to find the source of the bad-dog behavior. This being said, there are “bad dogs” who are downright dangerous and it’s not the fault of the owner: these dogs are actually psychotic (it happens in humans too) and end up being put down. Some dogs go senile (we’ve seen that with many a cocker…) and become dangerous.

I wouldn’t, however, say that all dogs are dangerous and shouldn’t be trusted.

For every person you know with a bite wound or an dog war tale, I can show you 5 whose lives have been totally changed because of a dog in their life. (and here, I’m only talking about dogs with jobs…)

35

sigh

The reason those things are effective for pest control is that rats and such animals that come into range of one of those things go away when they hear it. Rats have the power to do so.

A dog wouldn’t have such an ability, being chained or fenced into it’s surroundings. All you’d be doing with such a device in this situation is torturing the dog, likely causing it to bark further, and possibly even making it more aggressive by driving the thing crazy.

36

** Cerri ** Seems I just can’t stay away doesn’t it?

However, I carry such a device referred to above a “Dog Dazer” it is called and manufactured in the USA.

Far from making the dog more aggressive what it actually does is stop an attacking dog dead in its tracks.
All thoughts of attack are forgotten, the dog doesn’t bark and as for infuriating it further I assure you this is not so.
What happens is the dog stops ** DEAD ** shakes its head and tries to figure out what the hell that shriek was and where it came from. Meantime I have made my escape unscathed and continue on my merry way.
After a few encounters with me and my ‘Phaser’ the dog then gets the picture, it realises that yours truly is the one responsible for its discomfort and stays the hell away from me in the future.
If I wanted to be really cruel I could keep the button on the device depressed and drive the dog nuts, as it is one quick press and I’m safe.
Because I do not like dogs does not mean I would go out of my way to harm them but unfortunately some of my work mates do go to extremes with their ‘Phasers’ and also Pepper Spray.

FWIW The device has no effect on cats, squirrels and for some reason very young pups.

37

Oh, I wouldn’t have a problem with that sort of thing…when a dog is approaching you in an aggressive manner, you do what you have to do to keep the dog off you, and if that includes pepper spray, so be it.

I’ve used barking collars in the past, as well as prong collars (the only thing that ever was effective with my Rottweiler when it came to pulling on lead)

I was referring to the type of device that people sometimes use in their households to keep rats and such away, a persistent ultrasonic emitter, not such a device as you’re referring to…I would have zero problem with such a device as you describe. =)

38

So that’s that settled then.

Now, will you marry me )D

39

:smiley: …:smack:

40

chuckles You’d probably not enjoy life with me, I have a tendency to have many pets (3 cats atm, no dog till I move back into a house with a fenced-in backyard) and rescue strays on a regular basis. My home is decorated in “Early Animal Hair”. :wink: