The Star Trek Beyond, "I've seen it" thread with open spoilers after the first post.

It needed more Rocket Raccoon, and it literally would have been less ridiculous if it had ended in a dance-off between Kirk and the main villain. Am I seriously the only person to recognize that the film basically ripped off much of the plot of Guardians of the Galaxy (which, really, wasn’t that much to begin with) and then threw in a bunch of fan service callbacks in an effort to distract from the fact that it was basically a set of random, poorly filmed action sequences? At least James Gunn knew how to make a lively, well-paced movie with memorable characters and good use of colors and visuals. This thing was a murky mess of a film.

Also, in the J.J. Abrams-continuity of Star Trek, getting promoted in Starfleet is apparently faster than it is from working on the bridge of Darth Vader’s flagship. Kirk went from cadet to captain (O-6) in a single leap, and thence is offered the rank of Vice Admiral (O-9, a three star flag rank) because he’s…smart? Capable? Can ride a motorcycle? Has good hair?

Stranger

I mentioned this in my initial post but no one else was reminded of Mass Effect’s Citadel when they showed Yorktown?

I thought of Ringworld.

Pet peeve of mine: Folks applying 21st century US military practices to fictional futuristic non-US military organizations.

We honestly don’t know if a Vice Admiral is a rank or just a position in this setting. The fact that a Captain (a presumed O-6 or equivalent) can just apply for the job rather implies that a Vice Admiral in 23rd century Starfleet is not at all exactly like a Vice Admiral in 21st century United States Navy.

And as always, recall that a whole mess of high-ranking Starfleet folks got killed off in the previous movie. There are probably a lot of folks in the last few years in this setting who have received promotions much earlier than they normally would have.

As for the Bioweapon macguffin, the nature of it wasn’t really ever elaborated on very much, not even to the point that we had any reason to assume it was a biological weapon rather than killer nanites or something else. The thing only existed to be dangerous and to move the plot along. I felt the execution of this bit was a weak point in the writing.

How convenient that the Franklin just happened to come to a stop, all those years ago, perched forward-facing over an absurdly high cliff even though there were otherwise no evidence of it being at such a high altitude! And how odd that such a notable geographic feature of their immediate vicinity remained unmentioned and not shown until the plot required it.

Also lucky for our heroes that the former owners happened to have antique but fully operational motorcycle ready to ride and kept out in plain view in a common area of the ship, and that Jayla had not needed to scavenge or cannibalize any parts from it while fixing up the rest of the ship.

I really wanted to like this movie - and I did like parts of it - but some things were way, way too stupid. Old Trek was never this dumb, was it, where absurdly unlikely and convenient co-incidences constantly provided the crew with solutions to unsolvable problems?

B plus. Easily the best of the Reboot Treks, but that’s a low bar to pass. All of the surprises were telegraphed pretty blatantly and it still didn’t feel quite like Star Trek, but it was entertaining.

He is good friends with Abrams, literally. They have been friends since childhood. And he’s not just “starting” to show up, he’s been in Abrams’ work since Abrams started:

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/feature/a800667/greg-grunberg-jj-abrams/

I saw it last night and really enjoyed it! Yes, there were some plot holes, but it was quite enjoyable and it focused on discovery and a Trek-like moral lesson of unity & tolerance vs. ‘human first’.

Especially enjoyed the interplay between Spock and Bones. Though the best line was Bones hearing “Sabotage” and going “Are they playing classical music”, LOL! Though I guess by then, it may indeed be considered such.

I think the Bones/Spock relationship was the high point of the film. The two play off of each other so well (there’s a theory that the two characters are meant to represent the different sides of Kirk’s personality, so as to give voice to his internal thoughts for the audience). In particular, the bit where Bones cracks a joke about thinking that Spock actually cared about him, and Spock’s hurt reaction.

Spock still doesn’t really know his place in the universe (but then, who does?), and here he is, badly injured on an unknown world, and suddenly is faced with the possibility that someone he considers a friend doesn’t return the sentiment. The young Vulcan kid who couldn’t relate to his peers because of his human heritage comes to the forefront, now because of his Vulcan heritage making it difficult for him to connect with his human peers.

Except for the fact that not only does Starfleet show the range of officer ranks that is seen in the US Navy (ensign, lieutenant junior grade, lieutenant, lieutenant commander, commander, captain, et cetera), it also follows many other standard naval protocols, even those that should be completely obsolete in space. This isn’t a “well, the future is different” issue; this is the writers trying to accelerate the characters to their original timeline ranks as fan service even though it makes no sense. By the timeline of the J.J. Abrams films, Kirk has been out of the academy by five or six years. He’s barely older than the youngest possible members of his crew; he has very limited experience which shows in his almost-constant poor judgment about putting himself and the entire show in almost constant jeopardy with little thought about the consequences, which is actually the diametrical opposite of the original timeline Kirk, who constantly agonized over putting the crew at risk. This movie was basically a senseless “high octane action” take on the original concept to the point I suspect the next installment will literally be titled Star Trek: Fast & Furious.

It was an Infinity Stone. And by the way, it is still floating around in space somewhere near the space station.

The original series and its follow on movies and franchises often had difficulty working around many of the technical conceits (e.g. why they can’t just use the tranpsorter to get out of trouble, or for that matter, just transport a “photon torpedo” into an enemy ship and blow up its power reactors or whatever). But at least they mostly maintained some kind of continuity in the actual storyline and treated the characters as more than just meeples to advance the film from one action setpiece to another. This film was dumber than a bag of Tribbles.

Stranger

Didn’t they show the cliff much earlier, when Jayla showed Scottie the holographic projector thingies?

Yeah, after 100 some-odd years, it probably shouldn’t have still worked. But other Star Trek movies show the ships carry land vehicles, like the dumb buggies in Insurrection. So I don’t think it’s that weird that they’d have a motorcycle, and it’s doubtful a motorcycle would have useful parts for a star ship.

I don’t know, it sure was convenient that the Klingons had a time-travel-capable ship that Kirk & Co could commandeer, AND just so happened to have plenty of unused space capable of holding whales with a short retrofit. There’s no way that could come across as absurd. :smiley:

Well, I guess one good thing I can say about this movie that they didn’t come up with a third universe-shattering plot device that has to be handwaved away in the future. (Although apparently, cloaking devices are simple enough that Jayla could jury-rig one from scrap parts without, apparently, any formal training or proper tools—so really, we should in the next film see ships with full cloaking devices manned by immortals, that however never get used because you can just transwarp transport anywhere… OK, that might be a minor exaggeration.)

There were a couple of things I liked. For once, the fact that aliens don’t just speak English is addressed, and it’s shown that the universal translator doesn’t just magically translate in real time, and must be trained. Also, I’ve often thought that a force of small, fast ships could be quite effective in the Star Trek universe, against capital ships that maneuver slowly and still keep missing each other with their weapons, so it was nice to see that.

Why they couldn’t just set the photon torpedoes to explode right in the center of the swarm wasn’t clear to me—one might argue that there’s not much of a pressure wave in space, but we also see the Enterprise surfing a pressure wave from an explosion to escape the black hole from the first film of the reboot, so there seems to be some effect from distant explosions in space.

Also, I liked some of the character interactions, particularly Spock and McCoy really clicked, as did Kirk and McCoy during the scene where they drank the scotch McCoy stole from Chekhov; however, the scenes with Kirk and Spock seemed positively awkward at times, like on a first date where you don’t know what to say. Loved the nod to Kirk’s habit of ripping his uniform.

But all in all, it just doesn’t come together. The villain’s motivation is completely nebulous, and I just don’t get how they got from being stranded on that nebula planet with only a couple of officers surviving, to commanding a military force capable of ripping the Enterprise to shreds in like half a minute. Were those ships just left there by whoever were the original inhabitants of the planet? Were they supposed to be the ‘mining equipment’ left behind? How did they work—ram them into places you suspect have some significant resources, and then you collect the debris?

And moreover, if they were on the planet from the start, then why didn’t they just use them to leave after the crash? Why wait around for a hundred years, attacking ships that happen to do a flyby?

Otherwise, if they weren’t around originally, then where did they come from? How do like three guys stranded on a planet build up an armada of like a thousand ships? And moreover where did they get the pilots for them? Are they just random travelers that also crashed on the planet, or maybe were crashed? If so, how did Krall rally them to his cause of, um, really liking war or being peeved that none of the people who hadn’t got a fucking clue as to where he ended up in the galaxy come rescue him? To the point where they apparently were loyal enough to kamikaze themselves into the enemy?

Or were some (perhaps the brunt) of the ships just on autopilot, following the orders of those dictating the movement patterns?

Seriously, what exactly was Krall’s plan? He had an army capable of effortlessly shredding the flagship of the Federation, and apparently had it for the past hundred years (or at least quite some time by now), which probably would have been enough to rip through the whole Federation, say, fifty years before Kirk’s time—and yet, he waited for the second half of some ancient weapon to come to him. And that’s apparently all that he did—he waited, for the laughably, ludicrously improbably event that a thing the size of a baseball just coincidentally finds its way back to the planet it originated from in the first place, out of all the planets in the galaxy. Which, of course, it does.

And then this doomsday device (for a moment there, I was hoping that it would turn out to be the doomsday machine from TOS, with the artifact just being, I don’t know, the ignition key or something) turns out to do—what, exactly? Kill a person slightly slower than a phaser would? But OK, we’ve only seen it act on a single person—maybe, if it had been dispersed through the ventilation of the starbase, it would’ve indeed have a devastating effect.

Also, while it was clear that they’d eventually magic up some technobabble to get rid of the swarm, because as everybody knows, it all has to come down to fisticuffs in the end—but stealing the solution from Mars Attacks, really? OK, so let’s believe the handwave science for the moment—somehow, they emit a shortwave radio signal that disrupts the swarm’s synchronization. And then, the ships just blow up? Or did they all instantly collide? But we’ve seen the ships break through starship hulls unscathed, and they were still mostly going in the same direction, so there couldn’t have been much lateral velocity…

And oh yeah, we start the film with Captain Kirk, now a whooping five or six years out of the academy, getting tired of always flying through space and stuff, and ready to exchange his command for the excitement of—a space station desk job?

And who builds a space station, and apparently one central to the Federation, right next to some unexplored nebula, anyway? Who then builds it without even a padlock on its central ventilation system? And I thought for sure that the use of the public transporter booth, shown very conspicuously in the beginning, signaled its importance at some point in the plot—but no, the transporter capacities of the station are completely forgotten, so instead of teleporting ahead of the villain to the ventilation system, of course Kirk has to go on a chase on foot. Nevermind that there’s not too much sense to having the ventilation system of a space station connected to a fan that apparently just leads out into space…

Anyway. In the end, it’s just another big dumb blockbuster. Explosions and fisticuffs and stuff. But what I really don’t get is how these movies come to be so critically acclaimed—this one is currently at a ‘certified fresh’ rating of 83% at Rotten Tomatoes, Into Darkness boasts 86%, and 2009’s Star Trek is at 95%, making it the highest-rated of all Trek movies, and no. 15 on RT’s list of best science-fiction/fantasy movies! I mean, am I just not getting it anymore? Is this what getting old feels like?

It was ok but would have been better with:

yet another death star
orphan on a desert planet
bad guy with a black helmet
star who is in one scene and says nothing
main character killed by his son
bar with lots of aliens

That’s what people really like right?

From the moment they showed the interior for the first time.

I think Yorktown was my favourite thing in the movie. Sort of thing the Culture would build.

Saw it tonight with my wife.
Not being a supreme nitpicker when it comes to fun Summer movies, I enjoyed it. So did my wife.
It was certainly worlds better than Into Darkness, which was a horrible movie with a ridiculous plot.

I saw it with the family yesterday and it was definitely better than the last two. That’s something easy for them to aim for but I also think (hope) that they realized it doesn’t have to be all grimdark with A-hole Captain Kirk eating an apple at his court marshal, so it feels like they made steps to move away from that.

It did seem kind of Guardians of the Galaxy-ish and when I first saw a photo of Kirk in his jacket I thought that they wanted to Starlord him up a bit. That being said, I think that you’re going to get that comparison since Guardians was so good at what it did. The thing that stood out for me though was that they really did have very good character moments throughout the movie. That stuff worked.

I think that Krull got a little short changed there. They made him look like an alien basically just to make a big reveal for the end. The thing that kept him alive seemed goofy, but OK it’s Sci fi. I was hoping for a moment of redemption at the end with him to create an arc with the character but that didn’t happen. There’s a nice comparison there though as he never wanted the captain’s chair but that’s all Kirk wants. he’s the Anti-Kirk in that regard.

Yorktown looked cool but I wonder about the wisdom of flying starships through several miles of tube to dock. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. I don’t quite understand how the tubes turn into rivers but it made for a nice “Hell yeah” moment at the end.

It was nice to see the photo of the original cast and the purple space hand was a funny touch. The promotion system in Star Fleet is the craziest (nobody offered to promote me from corporal to first sergeant ;-), but it’s pretty much always been like that so whatev, man. I just wish someone would look at a rank chart when they write the script.

I liked the tribute to the original cast, but how and why did he have it? It’s not like he was expecting to be hurled back in time in the first movie so he brought it with him.

Good point but I suppose I could fan wank it and say his personal belongings could be stored on a thumb drive and replicated. You could have a copy of certain personal items with you at all times.

Well, with Ambassador Spock carrying around the photo of his old crew before he got hurtled back in time, it is worth remembering that he is possibly the last surviving member of that crew by the post-TNG era. Doctor McCoy was still kicking around in TNG’s first season, and Scotty turns up later, but if time in the Trek universe progresses at roughly the same rate as ours, it’s been a few decades since we saw either of them.

So it’s possible that he carries the photo simply because he misses his friends.

Carrying around a photo of missed friends seems so… illogical.