The Swedish school voucher system

[Lantern]

Well, private schools which don’t accept vouchers can be allowed to set any entrance requirements they wish. And vouchers schools can be allowed to impose academic standards of their choice so long as they don’t have entrance requirements, as suggested by Manda JO.

[mswas]

@Lantern

Well, private schools which don’t accept vouchers can be allowed to set any entrance requirements they wish. And vouchers schools can be allowed to impose academic standards of their choice so long as they don’t have entrance requirements, as suggested by Manda JO.

Ok, well with that understanding I am not so opposed to the idea.

[Wakinyan]

@mswas

That might work for a homogenous country like Sweden (calling Sweden diverse is a joke) …

Homogenous country, calling Sweden diverse is a joke…? Do you know anything about this country? - I bought a fine house last year in a good neighbourhood: One of my neighbours are from Central Europe, one is from Iran, another from Finland, and two are from Sweden. We guys – all family men – watched the Champions Leage final together last month (or so), all happily drinking and talking well into the night – now how did that happen in a homogenous country like Sweden…?

Edit: Also, my kids’ kindergarten is so diverse you’d probably fall off you chair visiting it. There are kids from literally all over the world; some born in Sweden, some not, some my eldest kid (I proudly point out) help learn the language. Sons and daughter of workers, dentists, unemployed, what have you. Sheesh…

[AskNott]

@ITR_champion

…
As for the Swedish system, it sounds great to me. Anything that gets kids out of crumbling public schools and into private and charter schools is a good thing. Millions of American children are receiving a worthless education or no education at all, and as a result going on to crap jobs or no job at all. The root cause of this is the greed of the teachers unions and the government’s desire to have a monopoly on education. We need to rescue these kids, period. I’m less concerned about the details than about doing something.

That’s fine if you don’t mind having your kids taught every day how to be good little Catholics, or good little fundamentalist protestants. If using tax money to teach your kids that creationism makes more sense than evolution is all right with you, then go on supporting vouchers. Good luck to you.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Lantern

Voucher advocates in the US often invoke the plight of inner-city children stuck in terrible schools. However US-style voucher schemes don’t really help poor children that much since they cover only a part of the expense of private school and many poor parents aren’t able to afford the difference.

Sweden introduced a voucher system in the early 90’s which solved this problem because the voucher pays for the full cost of education and schools can’t demand any fees beyond the voucher. In addition the schools have to meet basic educational standards and have to admit everyone regardless of ability. This piece(pdf file) discusses the main points of the system which apparently receives broad support across the Swedish political spectrum.The main advantage of the system is that it gives poor parents a real choice when it comes to their child’s school. So should this system be adopted in the US and other countries?

Yeah, that is basically a charter school system.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Rune

If some parents want to pay more, this is not a right that should be taken away from them.

Ahh but should they be able to pay for SOME of the tuition with the voucher and the rest out of their own pocket?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@furt

I’ll need a cite before I can believe this. I find it quite unlikely.

Charter system seem to cover the gap. Vouchers that can be used to pay only part of a tuition bill is generally not particularly beneficial to poor kids.

When the administration killed the D.C. program, I read a feature of a single inner-city mom whose kids had been using the voucher program to attend Sidwell Freinds (school of choice of the political elite). Given how wildly expensive D.C. schools, are, I suppose that’s not surprising.

The DC voucher program is VERY different than voucher programs proposed by voucher proponents. The DC voucher system works more like a $7500 NEED BASED scholarship. Sidwell Friends and the other voucher recipients generally provide scholarships for the difference between the voucher and the tuition.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Rune

The whole point of Lantern’s “solution” is that certain schools (those that are based on a higher funding from the parents) are made illegal, forcing the parents to seek out other kinds of schools.

No, I think Lantern is saying that IF you want to be able to accept vouchers THEN you have to be willing to take the voucher in full payment and meet minimum educational criteria.

I think private schools can opt out of the voucher program.

[mswas]

@Wakinyan

Homogenous country, calling Sweden diverse is a joke…? Do you know anything about this country? - I bought a fine house last year in a good neighbourhood: One of my neighbours are from Central Europe, one is from Iran, another from Finland, and two are from Sweden. We guys – all family men – watched the Champions Leage final together last month (or so), all happily drinking and talking well into the night – now how did that happen in a homogenous country like Sweden…?

Edit: Also, my kids’ kindergarten is so diverse you’d probably fall off you chair visiting it. There are kids from literally all over the world; some born in Sweden, some not, some my eldest kid (I proudly point out) help learn the language. Sons and daughter of workers, dentists, unemployed, what have you. Sheesh…

To be fair I live in New York City. My view of diversity is pretty skewed.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@mswas

But it’s a false choice. The schools are required to conform to certain standards that then eliminates some of the differentiation between the schools. If a school cannot limit attendance based on certain academic standards then it just turns all private schools in what public schools are now. In which case, why waste energy on vouchers?

We already have magnet schools and GT programs in every school district I have ever lived in. A little bit on selectivity might be OK but I would probably not want those to be part of the voucher program.

[Lantern]

@Damuri_Ajashi

Yeah, that is basically a charter school system.

It’s similar to charter schools except that for-profit schools are explicitly allowed. IIRC only a few states allow for-profit charter schools in the US.

[amanset]

@mswas

That might work for a homogenous country like Sweden (calling Sweden diverse is a joke)

You really need to stop talking about Sweden as if you are some kind of expert due to your two week holiday (or whatever it was).

For example, here are the facts for the suburb of Stockholm that I live in:

http://www.usk.stockholm.se/tabellverktyg/tv.aspx?projekt=omradesfakta&omrade=sdo15

26.2% are either 1st or 2nd generation immigrants (I am 1st generation).

Of this subset, the largest group were from Asia, 26.6%

Or perhaps you should have looked at the likes of Malmö, one of Sweden’s three biggest cities, of which 27% of the population was born in a foreign country:

Malmö | Demographics

My guess is that you were just trying to look for Black people. As Africa isn’t quite as common ethnic background you decided that Sweden just wasn’t culturally diverse.

This Excel spreadsheet:

http://www.scb.se/statistik/BE/BE0101/2008M02/Be0101KomJmfBef_2007.xls

Has a breakdown of the population for the whole of Sweden.

“Med utländsk bakgrund” means “with foreign background”.
“Utrikes född” means “foreign born”.
"Utländska medborgare means “foreign citizen”.

“Stockholms Län” is the whole county area of Stockholm, not just the metropolitan area.

As you can see, the county has 26.3% foreign background and 19.7% foreign born.

The metro area has 27.6% foreign background and 21% foreign born.

The most diverse area of Stockholm is Botkyrka, with 50.8% foreign background and 35.2% foreign born.

No, maybe it isn’t quite as diverse as the US, but to call it homogeneous and to declare that “calling Sweden diverse is a joke” is profoundly ignorant.

[amanset]

@mswas

To be fair I live in New York City. My view of diversity is pretty skewed.

Would you mind if I travelled to non-New York City parts of the US and declared that the US is not particularly diverse as the overwhelming majority are Whites from families that have been in the country for several generations?

Like, perhaps, that time I was working in South Dakota?

Well I won’t, because I am not an idiot.