Could someone explain how George Bush’s school voucher program would work? It doesn’t make sense to me.
If we give some poor kid a voucher for, say, $4,000 towards an $8,000 a year private school, how does that help him? It seems only a limited number of students will be able to make up the difference, and the rest would be stuck in a school with even less funds than before, right?
It seems there are three types of students:
a) those who could afford private school all along and now get a discount
b) those who can go now that they have the discount, but couldn’t before
c) those who still won’t have the money to make up the difference
The c) students will be stuck in a school with less money than before, right? So won’t they be worse off?
Maybe his plan is different than I’ve explained, if so - please let me know in what way.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. Giving a poor family a little bit of money doesn’t help them. And nobody’s going to propose a plan by which they pay full tuition at private schools, due to the expense.
This is one part of vouchers that makes me think of the shell game whenever I see a politician proposing them.
Being one of those people who fit into category A, I have to tell you that the plan sounds good to me!
I know that, as you’ve pointed out, the proposed solution doesn’t really solve the problem, but it does solve another problem: many people who, for whatever reason, don’t send their children to Public Schools, currently pay for education twice. Vouchers will give them a sort of rebate.
…I understand that they have something similar in Canada where you may apply the portion of your taxes that will go to fund education and use it to send your child to , for example, a Catholic school.
Certainly someone MUST know more about this than me…any Canucks got there ears on out there?
Nope, that’s pretty much the way school vouchers would work.
The theory is that somehow this would improve the public school system, but someone else will have to explain how - I’ve never been able to figure it out.
The other ‘reasoning’ that I’ve heard is that it’s UNFAIR for parents to have to pay twice to send their kids to private school (i.e., pay taxes to support public schools and pay tuition for private school). So, for consistency, school voucher proponents (or at least the ones that use this line of thought) should also support a total exemption for those of us with no children from any taxes used to pay for public schools.
Public schools are seen as a benefit to all the public, so those who have no children or choose to send their kids to private schools etc. are still reaping the benefit to ALL of us that ALL children have educational opportunities. That’s the point of public education system.
The public schools are required to enroll students in their district (unless said child has been expelled). Private schools are allowed to pick and choose.
Therefore, a private school can choose to enroll only those students who have a high academic profile, who are not physically or emotionally handicapped, who do not fall into the category of "special needs " or “high risks”.
Currently, in our state (MI) the “Voucher” issue is on the ballot - except the pro voucher folks have it worded to include a whole laundry list of hot button topics such as teacher testing. In their ads, they conveniently ignore the other aspect of the proposal (to amend our state’s constitution to allow for public funding of private schools). Everything else on that proposal COULD be achieved without a state wide ballot.
This is a misleading argument. As part of being an American citizen who pays taxes, you’re expected to contribute for the public good, of which education is only a part. Or to put it the way others have, no parents pay this tax too.
That’s not the only problem with vouchers. As some pointed out it doesn’t cover the expense of most private schools. It will also disproportionately disenfranchise public education for those who need it most. There are very few private schools in the inner city. Those that exist have waiting list.
If someone can tell me how the public schools are supposed to get better by taking money AWAY from the public schools and giving it to parents to REMOVE kids from the public school system, I would be amazed.
Isn’t that what we want to do, after all? Make public schools better?
Excluding the “do away with the whole system” Libertarian extremists, isn’t that what we ALL want?
*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Six months, one week, two days, 14 hours, 49 minutes and 54 seconds.
7704 cigarettes not smoked, saving $963.09.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 3 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 0 minutes.
If my kid was going to an obviously inferior school and getting a third rate education I wouldn’t be particularly impressed by Al Gore telling me has going to “give” me a better school by sending in a Federal turnaround team of experts.
The Voucher system is an acknowledgement that there is a problem, and it does give means to rectify the immediate problem for some.
Quite a few private schools have financial aid programs, and the vouchers might serve to make a quality education available to a good number of those who would otherwise not receive it.
If you don’t beleive that these schools can be turned around quickly by Federal intervention, then the vouchers make sense. They help people now.
Now, if the vouchers were scaled according to income that would be something.
As wring said, in Michigan we have a school voucher proposal on the ballot this election.
I’m voting against it.
One of the main things people don’t like about public schools is their lack of accountability - bad teachers with tenure who are impossible to remove; not enough accountability for how well students perform on aptitude tests and not enough on whether a school’s curriculum is adequately preparing kids.
Giving public money to private schools with even less accountability is supposed to be the answer? They don’t even have public boards of education or hold public meetings in many cases.
The ballot wording here is crafty. It notes that this proposal will not reduce public school funding below current levels. It says nothing about future funding, however.
There’s only so much money to go around. If a significant amount of funding is all of a sudden going to various private schools, either the public schools will get less, or taxes will go up to keep them from getting less. It’s not any more complicated than that.
Some parents see these vouchers as their great escape from the underperforming public school, and think they will be able to write their kid’s ticket to some private academy or parochial school. Vouchers will do little to make private schools more available to kids who currently can’t afford them or otherwise can’t get into them.
Those schools have limited space. If a large number of public school kids come calling, vouchers in hand, they will still get to pick and choose who gets in and who doesn’t.
Since Mrs. Kunilou teaches special ed, I tend to take this debate personally.
One of the major reasons a good private school is better than a bad public school is because the private school is by definition private. It can accept who it wants, reject who it wants, and kick out anyone it wants at any time.
I can’t wait for parents with vouchers to try to enroll their kids in private schools, only to be told the kids aren’t wanted there, or are asked not to come back the following year. And the private schools have a variety of valid (to them) reasons for being selective.
The student could be a discipline problem.
The student could have special needs which the school can’t/won’t spend the funds to accommodate.
The student may not want to or be qualified to go on to college. Many private schools boast of their academic excellence by showing the number of graduates who go on to college – obviously they won’t want to dilute their pool.
Many private schools demand a high level of parental involvement, both in time and money. Parents may be unwilling or unable to make that commitment.
The student may want advanced academics (foreign language, science, the arts, whatever) and the private school can’t furnish them any better than the public school.
Last but not least, private schools have every right to require that their students subscribe to a certain faith, code of conduct, come from a certain background, whatever. I’ve seen a number of posts on this board complaining that public schools have dress codes, censor the school newspaper, etc. Wait until you take your concerns to a private school and their response is “perhaps you’d be happier somewhere else.”
Oh no, that’s not MY kid, you say? Maybe it is, and maybe it isn’t. That would be the school’s call, not yours.
Well, I guess I’ll be the dissenting voice in this sea of unanimity.
First, it gives parents a chice they did not have. I thought more choices was good. Freedom of choice. Good. You wanna leave your kid in a public school? You can do that.
The argument that it takes money away from public schools is kind of silly since it also takes away kids in the same proportion.
Let us assume we agree society has an interest in making sure all kids are educated (those who believe your kids are your responsibility also have a point though). So the government should make sure the kids get an education by the most efficient way. If that is by contracting with the private sector, i see nothing wrong with that.
Te federal government contracts with the private sector to build nuclear subs and space shuttles because the private sector can do it better and cheaper than the government.
What’s wrong with contracting for education?
It is ironic that those who are for a woman’s right to choose are against a parent’s right to choose. So is choice a good thing or not?
[sarcasm] personally, I want to make sure that poor kids in a bad school have absolutely no choice at all. They should keep their poor asses in their shitty schools where they belong. Don’t send them to school with my kids.[/sarcasm}
you guys have been brainwashed by the NEA. Chech out this exchange as reported by Geaorge Will:
Maybe, if there are vouchers, the demand for private schools would increase and we’d need more private schools. If this happens, I’m giving money to my phallis worshipping pagan friends so they can start a school and use my tax dollars to educate their kids. I mean, if my tax dollars are going to go to the Fundie school, we should have some balance.
How about the school for Miltant Islamic Seperatists? The one started by the Michigan Militia? The one for gay teens (I’ll give some money to them, too)?
See – something to offend everyone. This always seems to be a case of “be careful what you wish for.”
The private schools won’t accept a student who has a discipline problem. It is easy to bring a student up to grade level but not if they are out of control. My kids attended private schools all the way through. The good ones have a long waiting list. Why should they accept a student with an attitude problem when there are many who are eagerly awaiting a place in the classroom.
Private schools do not have the benefits that the public schools have. You would be lucky to find a bus or cafeteria on any private campus. The kids often have to clean their own rooms before they leave for the day with only an emergency handiman on call.
When bussing became a big problem in L.A. several private schools opened their student body to more kids than they could handle. This didn’t work out and many were sent out before the school year was over.
Private schools also are more diverse in their students. Ours had kids from nearly very country imaginable. One derogatory word from another student usually found that kid out of the school. When that happens no tuition is refunded. The student and parents have to sign an agreement (contract) stating clearly they understand the rules. One broken rule means out the door. This would be unfair to a public school student who was not used to it.
Our kids wore uniforms with regulation hair cuts and skirt hems below the knees. I can hear all the kids screaming “this violates my rights” they too can be found waiting for a ride in the parking lot.
Many kids go to private school on scholarships. There are always successful businessmen who will pitch in and put together a scholarship grant. The student must earn it and prove to the provider that the money is not wasted. Public school parents would never understand this.
Unless a group wants to open a new school and wants to allow voucher kids in, that would be the only way it would work.
With vouchers those schools that wish to be selective can raise tuition an amount equal to the voucher. This leaves less wealthy–note I said “less wealthy,” not “poor” because plenty of us middle-class folks can’t afford private schools either–parents choosing between the looted public schools and crappy new private schools.
As for the whole “I don’t have kids so I shouldn’t pay for education” argument, in Illinois our schools are mostly funded by local property taxes. Whether or not a school referendum passes depends on the local concentration of older residents and others without children in the system.
As I have said before, there is no guarantee that private schools are better than public schools, and their lack of accountability makes them suspect.
Parents have freedom of choice now. You wanna put your kid in a private school? Good. You can do that.
While lowering school attendance may reduce some costs, it will not lower costs proportionately to the loss of funding. Why? Because some are fixed costs (buildings, utilities, maintenance, etc.) and some are costs subsidized by the students that will be leaving (i.e., extra costs for disabled kids, high risk kids, etc.). In other words, the public schools will have a net loss of funding.
It is ironic that those who tout school vouchers as a logical parental ‘right to choose’ are against free and available abortions on demand paid for with federal funding. :rolleyes:
Why is it inherently good to keep public schools? The point of school choice is to improve education. The NEA moans that if people had choice then public schools would suffer. If public schools couldn’t compete then they should go out of business. Why support a monopoly just because it’s a monopoly?
If you allow school choice, you get a lot of schools popping up. Some will be good, some won’t. Some schools might not let your kid enroll, but others will be in line to grab the opportunity.
As far as lack of accountability, I can’t see how education consumers will make a school less accountable than a school board whose members have their own political agendas and usually rely on the support of public school teachers who refuse to accept any proposition that makes them accountable.
I agree that most vouchers programs, as suggested, will not immediately lead to the level of competition necessary to improve education, but the principle is a good one.
