The? TheTheTheThe ... Sometimes it's just "the"

[GorillaMan]

@pulykamell

However, while I can’t find a specific cite for the Beatles…

Here’s one:

@The Times style guide

Beatles, the, no need to cap the unless at the start of a sentence; similarly the Rolling Stones and the Manic Street Preachers etc, but prefer to keep cap “T” with The Who and The The

They also have a length entry, unsurprisingly, under ‘T’ for references to the newspaper itself.

[Jurph]

@Alessan

But the thing is, the Beatles weren’t called “The Beatles”, they were Beatles - they consisted of four individual Beatles. John was a Beatle. Paul, George and Ringo: also Beatles. Seeing as those were all the Beatles there were, all four of them together were “the Beatles”, and not, say, “a bunch of Beatles” or “some Beatles”. Saying “the Beatles” is like saying “the Republicans” or “the Dopers.” I mean, gramatically. Beatles Beatles Beatles.

Likewise (and double-strength) for the Pixies who have got a footnote in their Wikipedia page which aggressively and pedantically points this fact out.

[Q.E.D]

@Jurph

Likewise (and double-strength) for the Pixies who have got a footnote in their Wikipedia page which aggressively and pedantically points this fact out.

:dubious: You have an extremely low bar for aggression and pedantry.

[Mark_Ryle]

@Alessan

Beatles Beatles Beatles.

“I don’t believe in Beatles.” John Lennon, from God (The Dream Is Over)

Doesn’t mean anything – I just like it.

[Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun]

Are the rules different if one is writing in The Hague?

[WF_Tomba]

@Two and a Half Inches of Fun

Are the rules different if one is writing in The Hague?

Dear The Cheat,
I have arrived in The Hague with The Donald, and we are going to see The Who. I am sure it will prove to be Tha Bomb. See you next week in The Gambia!
Your pal,
Teh Haxx0rz

[Maus_Magill]

Any one else catch the irony that this is posted in The BBQ Pit?

[Acsenray]

@acsenray

• King’s novel The Stand was made into a critically acclaimed television movie.
• I really like Thunderclap Newman’s song “The Reason.”

And just to clarify this point, these are titles used as titles. The the would remain uncapitalized and unitalicized/unquoted in these situations:

• The producers of the television show successfully translated the Stand characters to the small screen.
• At least one music critic has noted that the “Reason” melody has spawned many imitators.

[Kent_Clark]

@pulykamell

However, while I can’t find a specific cite for the Beatles or the Ohio State University, it seems to me from scanning online news sources that the lowercase the is preferred.

Here’s one, and I’ll call this more definitive than what any stylebook says.

“Beatles” “Apple” and the Apple logos are trademarks of Apple Corps Ltd.

So the group’s legal name is “Beatles” not “The Beatles.”

As for Ohio State, “The” may be a part of that school’s official name, but guess what! Even the University’s own materials don’t always follow it. I say screw’ em – first reference only, if that!

[RickJay]

@acsenray

First, I don’t agree that the “formal” name (whatever that means in this context) is “The Beatles.” They are the Beatles. The “the” is there because English grammar demands it, not because it’s a necessary part of the name.

It’s definitely part of the name. Some rock bands use the definite article (and in the case of A Flock of Seagulls, the indefinite article) and some don’t:

The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
The Tragically Hip
The Who
The Clash

If you just peruse their album covers, the definite article is usually used. (The Stones are a bit inconsistent in this regard, though.) Still, the article is accepted as part of their names.

Some do not:

Nirvana
Pearl Jam
Led Zeppelin
Creedence Clearwater Revival

I don’t see anything wrong with typing out “I met The Beatles,” or “I met the Beatles.” Either way seems grammatically correct to me although they imply slightly different meanings; in the first, I seem to be saying “I met the band known as The Beatles” and in the second I am saying “I met the gentlemen who are famous for being members of this band.” But either works.

[Alessan]

My rule of thumb is this - if you could concevably drop the definite article, then it shouldn’t be capitalized. For instance:

“He’s a Beatle”

“She’s a New York Times reporter”

However, you would not say:

“He’s a Who”, unless you were talking to a Seussian denzian. Therefore, you’d capitalize the definite article in “The Who”

@RickJay

If you just peruse their album covers, the definite article is usually used. (The Stones are a bit inconsistent in this regard, though.) Still, the article is accepted as part of their names.

But that’s just beacause the beginning of sentances or of titles is always capitalized, no matter what.

[Thudlow_Boink]

Here’s what bothers me: When TV announcers say things like “Stay tuned for a new The Simpsons coming up next!”

“a new The”?

[WF_Tomba]

@kunilou

Here’s one, and I’ll call this more definitive than what any stylebook says.

“Beatles” “Apple” and the Apple logos are trademarks of Apple Corps Ltd.

So the group’s legal name is “Beatles” not “The Beatles.”

That just means they trademarked the word Beatles. The trademark on Beatles also protects the use of The Beatles, just as the trademark on Apple protects the use of Apple Corps. There’s no such thing as a band’s “legal name”.

[Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew]

@RickJay

It’s definitely part of the name. Some rock bands use the definite article (and in the case of A Flock of Seagulls, the indefinite article) and some don’t:

As a point of interest, their respective first records billed them as:

The Pink Floyd
The Cream
Kinks

[Acsenray]

@LilShieste

Is this supposed to apply to other articles (e.g., “a”), as well? That is, should I not capitalize the “a” in A Scanner Darkly?

If it’s within the italicized or quoted part of the title, it should be capitalized.

But not, for example, in this case:

• This novel uses a Scanner Darkly style story arc.

And how many of you, who claim that “The Who” is the “formal” name of the band (whatever that menas), would say “I went to see a The Who concert”?

[Freddy_the_Pig]

Names of sports teams are invariably preceded by “the”, but nobody ever claims the “the” is part of the team name, or capitalizes it.

Let the record show that the “the” in my user name shall not be capitalized, lest I be considered Pretentious.

[pulykamell]

@Thudlow Boink

Here’s what bothers me: When TV announcers say things like “Stay tuned for a new The Simpsons coming up next!”

“a new The”?

Is this common? I’ve never heard this usage and, I agree, it really grates.

[descamisado]

@Alessan

My rule of thumb is this - if you could concevably drop the definite article, then it shouldn’t be capitalized. For instance:

“She’s a New York Times reporter”

What if the New York Times itself considers its name to be “The New York Times” (see masthead)?

[Acsenray]

@5-4-Fighting

What if the New York Times itself considers its name to be “The New York Times” (see masthead)?

Doesn’t matter. It’s still not a The New York Times reporter. English trumps corporate bullshit.

[descamisado]

@acsenray

Doesn’t matter. It’s still not a The New York Times reporter. English trumps corporate bullshit.

No, I meant specifically, not the example article given, but the definite article used in their masthead: The New York Times Is it"I always read The New York Times," according to what they call themselves, or is it "I always read the New York Times based on the rule of thumb I quoted about definite articles.

I was basing my question both on the practice I’ve seen in The New Yorker magazine when referring to the NYT (and other “The” publications), and the AP Stylebook rule cited earlier, indicating you should go with what the publication calls itself.

I know it’s not “a The New York Times reporter” – that would be silly.