As I’m sure you perfectly well know, a paraphrase is not an opinion. It’s an inexact rephrasing whose purpose is to convey the original message.
Opinions can differ on a paraphrase. You chose to see it as lying so you could justify calling a survivor of child rape a liar.
That was a choice, and it’s not the choice decent and kind people make, IMO.
What simpering nonsense. Words mean what they mean.
No, a paraphrase doesn’t have to “convey the original message” in a way that the original speaker would agree was accurate.
For example, the well-known rhetorical device called “sarcastic paraphrase” simultaneously describes the subject matter of the paraphrased message and conveys a mocking or derogatory opinion of it. As in this newspaper example from 1916:
It’s highly unlikely that the Kaiser would have agreed with Punch that that was what he said in his letters. But that doesn’t mean that Punch was actually lying about them.
In just the same way, MrDibble sarcastically paraphrased your patronizing criticisms of black Americans as complaints that “today’s Negros are more uppity”, in order to express a disparaging opinion of them.
Sure, nobody expects you to actually agree with his sarcastic paraphrase of what you said. Sarcastic paraphrases are intended to provoke disagreement on the part of the paraphrased speaker. But that doesn’t mean that the sarcastic paraphraser is a liar.
but whaddabout her emails?!?!?!?!
Perhaps fruitless, but back to the OP.
Even if you had a valid point - which you don’t - the distinction is meaningless. If I sarcastically call you an asshole, I’m still calling you an asshole. Dribble had every intent to paint me with that racist belief and you perfectly well know it.
There will be those who insist this does not qualify as a school shooting, because he only shot himself.
People suck.
:rolleyes: Long experience has taught me that that’s your standard backpedal when I make a valid point that you hadn’t thought of.
Of course. But even if I happen to disagree with you about my being an asshole, and even though your statement cannot possibly be literally true because there’s no such thing as a living human being who consists only of an anus, none of that makes your statement an actual lie.
Because it is very clearly conveying your opinion about something that is a matter of opinion: namely, whether I’m an asshole.
Nobody at all is denying that MrDibble’s sarcastic paraphrase was conveying the opinion that your remarks were racist. That is precisely the derogatory opinion of them that he was expressing. But, again, that does not mean that his sarcastic paraphrase counts as an actual lie.
Because it was very clearly conveying his opinion about something that is a matter of opinion: namely, whether your remarks were racist.
Here’s yet another example of the use of the well-known device of the sarcastic paraphrase to convey a derogatory opinion of the paraphrased remarks:
No liberal Dopers ever said, or ever would agree with you that their words meant, that “fuckedupness is the new cool”. So does your sarcastic paraphrase make you a liar?
Whether they derail threads is a good measure.
OK, I get that it’s hard to imagine some people hold some beliefs honestly. I also get that claiming someone else is trolling is, itself, a standard troll, especially when that person is expressing a weird belief. So it’s possible we’d be taken in by a really, really good troll, even if we were more rigorous in policing people who were out to derail threads.
None of that applies to Starving Artist doing his little song-and-dance routine, with all his blatant lies and misrepresentations. Ditto for Crafter_Man and double-ditto for Luciano700 and his stream-of-idiocy pissing all over the threads he’s in. His idiocy is blatantly obviously dishonest and intentionally disruptive, and the only ones who can do that shit over and over again on the SDMB are right-of-center, because any non-righties who tried it would (or have been) be banned.
I don’t care if he’s idiotic. I care if he’s deliberately throwing shit around and disrupting things.
I mean, aceplace57 is a complete moron, too, but I don’t care about him and I’ll never call him a troll because he doesn’t attempt to disrupt everything.
On the exact opposite extreme, Liberal was an intelligent man with odd ideas, but the odd ideas didn’t lead him to derail anything, as I recall. He posted in good faith and didn’t accuse everyone around him of lying, I’m pretty sure I remember that much.
True, and I like that about this place, but Starving Artist is malicious regardless of whether he’s an idiot or just playing one on the Internet.
It does if you employ it to lie about someone.
I think what undercut your argument was your argument. I mean, your very first ‘logical’ step was to declare that since the boy was 12 years old, his anus must be the same height as a toilet paper roll.* To this day that remains the single stupidest thing I’ve ever read.
The fact that 7 years later you still haven’t realized the flaw in your assumption is pretty good proof that you’re mentally retarded.
*Anyone reading this who hasn’t read the Paterno thread might think this is an exaggeration. It isn’t. This fucking moron has spent the last 7 years arguing that all 12 year old boys have anuses the same height as toilet paper rolls.
Ahem, as I’ve said in this very thread, I don’t derail anything. I post comments that happen to be at odds with the beliefs and attitudes of most of the posters on this board. They don’t like this. So they call me names and lie about/misinterpret/misstate what I’ve said. I then respond to those posts.
And yet the fact that my attackers are the ones who post the first off-topic comments and are the true detailers get a complete free pass and it’s my responses that are deemed to be hijacking the thread and/or turning it into the SA show.
Utter, utter bullshit. If you don’t want threads hijacked because I’m answering/rebutting off-topic bullshit, then tell the hijacking bullshitters to stop it and it will stop. It is extremely rare if ever that I post an off-topic comment that isn’t in response to something someone else has said to or about me.
I repeat, in order to clarify my application of the second person pronoun, which seems to be confusing you:
MrDibble used a sarcastic paraphrase of some earlier remarks of yours (Starving Artist’s) to convey his derogatory opinion that they were racist, which you (Starving Artist) don’t agree with.
You, Starving Artist, used a sarcastic paraphrase of statements by “liberal Dopers” to convey your derogatory opinion that they were endorsing fuckedupness, which liberal Dopers don’t agree with.
If the use of sarcastic paraphrase to convey a derogatory opinion makes MrDibble a liar, it makes you (Starving Artist) a liar too.
Are you kidding? Liberal LIVED to hijack threads, and was constantly accusing people of lying, of attacking him, and was always playing the martyr. I wouldn’t stay he was stupid, but the guy was the drama queen to end all drama queens. Starving Artist is a rank amateur compared to Lib.
No, it really isn’t an exaggeration. It’s out and out bullshit, and yet another attempt to drag me into arguing the issue outside the appropriate thread.
I’ve taken the position that I won’t argue Paterno issues outside its dedicated thread because believe it or not I appreciate the work the mods do here and it came to my attention several years ago that while it was going on the Paterno thread was a HUGE months long headache for the mods. I had never given a moment’s thought at the time as to how the thread may be impacting on the mods and was truly sorry to have been the one responsible for all that. So, in an effort not to recreate that all over again, I have made it a practice only to argue Paterno thread issues in the appropriate thread.
My adversaries, such as the asshole this post is in response to, were proven wrong in that thread about every single accusation and assumption they made regarding Joe Paterno and they are pissed about it but powerless in the face of facts to contest it. So they zero in on the paper towel tube thing because it’s all they have left, and they misrepresent it endlessly in an effort to bait me into arguing it outside the proper thread. They do this because they know most people here have no interest in reading about it and won’t go over there to follow the argument.
So this is all they have left, and it’s nothing more than an effort to inflict the Paterno issue on to people who have no interest in reading about it that they do so. It’s silly and dishonest and chickenshit and it’s gone on for years. At one time the mods restricted comment about the issue to the Paterno thread and wouldn’t allow this kind of crap elsewhere. Why they changed their minds and decided to let these losers keep trying to foist it on people who don’t want to see it is anyone’s guess, but I still try not to recreate the burden I had put them under before and do my best to contend with this nonsense with as little Paterno specific detail as possible.
Hm. I guess I don’t remember him as well as I thought.
Nope. His accusation was very specific and intended to be as inflammatory as possible. What I said was a generic insult of the type that goes on around here all the time and is very typical. Not the same thing at all.
I’m sure you don’t see the dishonesty you’re putting on display with all this dancing on the head of a pin and bickering over what the meaning of is, is, but I’m not being sarcastic nor paraphrasing at all when I say that you’re being every bit as dishonest by engaging in all this semantic tomfoolery as iiandiiiiiiiii is in virtually every post he makes these days.
And now I’ll grant you the last word or I’ll still be here weeks from now. Just don’t kid yourself that you’re scoring any sort of legitimate point.
Absolutely nothing I said was a misrepresentation.
And “zeroing in” on the crux of your entire fucking argument is a problem for you? You claimed that there couldn’t have been a rape because a 12-year-old boy must have had an anus the same height off the ground as a toilet paper tube. And apparently you still think that was a pretty swell argument, because you think you won that argument. You are, pretty clearly, mentally retarded.
Tell you what…without discussing Paterno at all, do you think all 12-year-old boys have anuses the same height off the ground as toilet paper rolls? Yes or no?
p.s., if your answer is “no” then you have a rape victim to apologize to.