The trial has begun. So the question must be asked. Did Michael do it?

I’m 39 and single. Check.

I moved here about a year ago, and I don’t really have any close friends yet. Check.

Well, I was laid off from my last job, and unemployed for six months until November 2003. Check.
I may fit those three “qualifications,” but to the disappointment of some profilers, I prefer my partners to be women in their late 20s through early 40s.

I consciously go out of my way to avoid kids. In a time where missing kids and disturbing sex crimes take a front-and-center position in a sensationalist media, I just don’t want my neighbors or others thinking the wrong thing.

It is perfectly OK in and of itself. Only a couple secondary reasons why it causes a :dubious: reaction:

Sure, if they suggest it, there’s no ethical problem, but to cajole them into doing so is sort of skeevy. And I can’t really imagine many prepubescent kids wanting to share a bed with a man.

The other problem is that if you do so, you make enforcement of anti-molestation laws more difficult, as most pedophiles would absolutely love to sleep with children, and most non pedophiles couldnt care less. But that’s a retroactive justification for making it ethically wrong, since the innocent man himself is not a molester.

Of course, only insomuch as pedophiles are more likely to be molesters than non-pedophiles.

They LA Prosecutor’s office has never released this information, nor have the letters been scrutinized. You don’t even know what they say. Words can read very differently if you assume someone is a child molester. I became very suspicious of the leaks we’ve been hearing when they characterized a book of photos by famed photographer Bruce Weber as child porn.

I have, and I think it is pretty damming, but I have some doubts about how the DA claims this went down. I’m not saying he’s never done something like this. But, this time, it seems unlikely to me. Next, those underwear were not found in his room. They were found in his 6-year old daughter Paris’ bathroom. HUGE DIFFERENCE. I have no idea how they got there, but it’s not a open and shut as you pretend it is. The kid could have easily left them in there by accident during one of his visits. If it’s a full bath, he may have showered in there.

I can’t believe more of you aren’t taking into account that they accuser and his mother have both lied about similar things in order to get money. His mom has done it twice (once with JC Pennys, once against the boy’s father). Plus, the timeline, and her lies about being kidnapped make question her story further. While I think MJ is nuts, I don’t think I could convict him beyond a reasonable doubt in this case.

Plus he made Thriller. :smiley:

They also found lots and lots of real porn- stuff like Barely Legal and *Club * plus a ton of stuff on the computer. Some of what they found included nude pictures of children in non-sexual sitations. You may equivocate and say it’s not porn if you wish, I say it’s just one more nail in the coffin.

Are you on MJ’s payroll or something? Is MJ paying people to register on message boards and try to defend him? I heard he’s done stuff like that in the past.

And what, pray tell, is the DA’s motivation for framing up poor Michael Jackson?

It seems like a lead pipe cinch to me. We can agree to disagree.

What’s the difference? It’s still his house. His daughter didn’t molest that kid.

There will apparently be testimony (and not just from the victim) that MJ frequently makes the kids change their underwear after he molests them so that he can dispose of any potential DNA evidence. He would supply them with new skivvies. The cops found a great big supply of boy’s underwear

The kidnapping is supported by other witnesses, including some Neverland employees and other kids who say he forced them to make videotaped denials that they had been molested before he would let them go.

I think it’s really sad that the kid’s family is being attacked like this and I guess Jackson has no other recourse considering those purported love letters.

As long as we’re talking about liars, though, considere some of the whoppers that Jackson has told publicly, including denials of extensive plastic surgery and his fairy tale about being held hostage in a bathroom at the LAPD.

Odd scenario.

MJ is most decidely “a pedophile” from his head to hs toes. The interview a few years ago where the young adolescent boy (now his accuser) was nuzzling up to him while the cameras rolled, was telling in that Jackson saw nothing wrong with this. The issue is whether he is a criminal pedophile.

The mother is a small time con artist and hard core grifter, and has been running one scam or another for decades, some centered on her ailing son. She more or less delivered up her kids to Jackson, and only went after his after he booted her family from the estate.

Jackson’s young accuser: victim, or pawn of financially predatory family?

None of that is relevant to whether this kid was molested. The fact that his mother was willing to sell her kid may make her partially culpable but that wasn’t the kid’s fault and it doesn’t mean he wasn’t molested.

It also doesn;t explain the love letters and the shared porn pages.

I have not read of additional “child porn”, so I will hold off on that. But, how in your mind does normal porn act as a nail in his coffin. To me, makes him more normal than I ever thought he was.

Yes, I am. The first 100 posts and 2 years of lurking were just to throw you off.

I didn’t say he was framed. Just that the evidence seems lacking. I’m sure the DA thinks he did it. It doesn’t mean that he did it, nor does it mean the jury will draw the same conclusions form the evidence he did.

Where did you hear that he’d provide them with new underwear and that they found a supply of boy’s underwear? Where did you hear that anyone else will testify to that? Plus, underwear found in his kid’s bathroom is very different than if they were found in his bedroom. If you don’t understand that then I don’t know where to begin.

Cite? Apparently during the time the kids were held hostage, the mother came and went 3 times. If you have information that states otherwise, I would like to read it. On your last point, the surgery lie is nothing. I don’t expect people to tell the truth about medical matters. The other lie is very suspect. I think he loses a lot of credibility because of that.

I just wanted to point out that if I were a pedophile with a giant play ground attraction with hundreds of visitors and potential targets to choose from, wouldn’t this family be a great choice for me to victimize?

He’s a rich weirdo being accused by apparent scam artists. As such, I think it’s going to be up to the physical evidence for this one and I’m going to wait until I see some before I pick a side. Given that I’m avoiding any Jacko headlines like the plague, that may take awhile.

Because before he actually did it someone accused him of it, shined a big spotlight on him, and started an investigation. It’s like seeing a guy acting strange at a store, accusing him of stealing only to find out he hadn’t stolen anything. Then, seeing that same guy come back to the same store and steal moments later. It is very hard to reconcile that.

It’s very strange to reconcile a guy who would keep sleeping with little boys after getting busted for molesting one and then paying $20 million to shut the kid up.

Love letters
Shared porno
The kid’s testimony

Guilty.

It seems to me more like a shoplifter focusing on stores that have recently lost lawsuits for misconduct by overzealous security.

‘Child erotica’ found during search at Jackson’s Neverland Ranch

Someone at Fametracker linked to a site which pictures from the book in question-ugh ugh ugh…it wasn’t porn exactly-the one I saw, but I’m seriously skeeved out and worried about my computer cache!

The undies don’t convince me. If the mother really is a scammer, it wouldn’t be too hard to plant a pair of undies somewhere- especially a room the Michael probably doesn’t snoop around in much.

Oh for pity’s sake.

Your original post suggested that we had nothing to indicate Jackson’s guilt but the porno mags and the letters. That simply is not true. The victim has given his story to the police. He hasn’t testified at trial? So what? The porno mags and letters haven’t been offered as evidence either.

Technically speaking there’s no “evidence” at all yet, since none has been offered at trial. What we’re talking about is not evidence, but potential evidence available to the prosecutors. The porno mags and letters (when tendered at trial) will be circumstantial evidence. The boy’s testimony (when offered at trial) will be direct evidence. And regarding the boy’s testimony, take a look at what The Smoking Gun has to say:

Follow the link if you want all the details of the boy’s expected testimony.

Am I the only person who doesn’t care at all about this case? I am tired of all these trials they foist on the television public; what for? To distract us from thinking about world affairs? My opinion is, he is filthy rich, therefore will not be found guilty. Whether he is or not won’t count. Wake me when its over.

The underwear doesn’t prove anything. If the kid slept at the house, and he changed clothes, an innocent laundry mixup could leave the underwear in Jacksons residence.

However, the other evidence is highly incriminating.

I disagree that it’s perfectly OK in and of itself:

I have a nephew by blood who’s 12. I am also very close to a 10-year old girl whose parents are essentially family, although not blood relatives.

If I ever found myself faced with a seeming need to share a bed for the night with either one of them (even if they suggested it), I would beg off – I would sleep on the floor, or prop myself in the corner.

I know my sexuality, but I also know that sleep is not a conscious state: when I’m asleep and dreaming that I’m holding Shania Twain/Dolly Parton/J-Lo in my arms (all three on a good night!), I’m not conscious of who is actually in my arms.

It would have creeped me out to have woken up to such a ‘reaction’ when I was a kid.

Otherwise, I agree with your post.

I haven’t really been following the case that closely and am not familar with many of the details mentioned here.

But I found the raid on the Neverland Ranch telling in and of itself. I remember watching it and thinking that getting a warrant for an invasion of that magnitude would have to have required some seriously strong evidence. Could you imagine the scandal if they actually found nothing?