I’ve paid almost no attention to the the Trial of D.J. Trump until just now when I watched Seth’s A Closer Look. I suspect it is a pretty good summary.
That Schiff closing argument is just devastating. Shame the Republicans in congress are so incredibly dishonorable, pretty much to a man (and woman).
But see, Sen. John Barrasso (R, Wyoming) was just on CNN basically explaining that what the impeachment is really about is making Chuck Schumer the Majority Leader in the Senate. Trump is just the victim and vehicle of this plot. Republicans are defending our democracy, elections, and the will of the American people. :rolleyes:
“No constitution can protect us if right doesn’t matter”
– Adam Schiff
He’s absolutely correct. It is beyond obvious that Trump is guilty. All the matters is whether the rule of law and the constitution will be upheld. Trumpists better be careful. You might get what you wish for. The office of the president will become above the law. And perhaps somebody is so partisan that while Trump is in office they’re ok with this because he bears the ®. But Trump won’t be president forever. A Democrat will be in office eventually. Do you want the office of the president to be above the law under a Democrat? What happens if the Democrats decide that to compete they need to be as authoritarian as the Republicans? What happens to your country?
In another thread, somebody (I don’t recall and it isn’t important) said they would vote for Trump if the Democrat candidate was not going to deal with border issues. This is madness to me. There is no issue that the Republicans can offer that is more important than ensuring the rule of law. A vote for Trump is a vote for making the president king. No matter how much damage you think the Democrats might do on any issue, nothing trumps (ha!) this absolutely primal requirement to have a functional democracy.
Written 17 years ago and still pertinent.
Trump isn’t dealing with the border issue. He’s destroying DHS and the amount of money going from Mexican workers to Mexico is up.
He hasn’t looked at e-verify, he hasn’t tried to charge people who hire illegals (giving them an incentive to come in and stay in illegally), nor done anything else that might actually be effective.
If someone complains about all the mosquitoes, gets up, grabs a rifle, walks back a hundred yards, and starts shooting this way - when there was a bottle of insect spray right there, a fly swatter, and various other implements that are built to fight mosquitoes - I am personally inclined to believe that the person just wanted an excuse to go shooting.
In Trump’s case, he wanted an excuse to build a wall. He has friends in construction.
It doesn’t matter. Even if you pretend that he is. Suppose Trump is in fact doing all of the things he promised. Suppose he’s bringing back jobs. He’s reducing the trade deficit. He’s blah blah blah. He’s not doing these things, but let’s say that he is. What difference does it make if he’s undermining American democracy? Is there any issue more important than maintaining the democratic principles of the country? What could any American be willing to trade in exchange for democracy? In my view, the only answer to that can be nothing. And once you trade it away, it is so very hard to get it back.
(you here is general you, not Sage Rat)
I have questions.
- What happens if he actually is impeached?
- How many votes would it take to impeach him?
- What if he isn’t? Will they keep trying something, anything?
That’s for feeding the base. Meanwhile, privately…
He’s already been impeached.
In your view.
If you want to persuade someone, it can be useful to consider their view.
I agree with your view. But I’m a philosophical type who is strongly interested in the developmental history of humanity’s social achievements.
Your average person likes to hire people like Hugo Chavez, Donald Trump, and Edwin Edwards. They’re not concerned with the law or norms or anything, just whether it’s the guy who promises them pizza every day for lunch, or the guy who says that he’s going to institute a 10 minute daily calisthenics event for everyone, during second break, to improve health and longevity.
Despite common belief, the evidence would say that your average person doesn’t advance greatly from how they were in high school. They just get fatter with more grey hair.
In more positive and less cynical news, the most recent Emerson College survey had a 4% increase in the will to remove the President, among Republicans.
That said, their previous number was 18% of Republicans and their new number is 22%, so their batch of Republicans seem to be non-standard (most other pools are in the 9-10% range). Possibly, they’re tracking people who are in more moderate/purple districts. But that would be an indicator that at least that group is migrating their opinion.
Sorry. I meant removed from office.
Then the articles of impeachment go to the Senate and they have a trial.
This isn’t helpful.
It takes 2/3 of the Senators present to convict and remove. If he’s removed, the Vice President, of course, becomes President. As a practical matter, I’m not willing to speculate what that means for the country.
Yes, and on the floor of the senate, no less. Why, it’s the greatest deliberative body in the world! don’t you know. :rolleyes: 
I’m reminded of Robert Caro’s 100 page history of the senate at the beginning of his book on LBJ, “Master of the Senate.” While acknowledging that the senate as at times risen to level of accomplishment envisioned by the Framers, and has passed great and effective laws on occasion, he writes of how senators have long held way too high an opinion of themselves, and throughout the senate’s history it has been the site of petty squabbles, ultra-partisanship, and all manner of reprehensible incidents.
The problem with this argument is that it assumes equivalence between the parties and that hypocrisy matters. If a Democrat comes into office and starts acting authoritarian, what willl happen is that the Republicans will do a 180 degree pivot on their unitary executive theory, and join the significant portion of Democrats who believe in the rule of law over partisanship to kick him out of office.
Should be when he isn’t, No one seriously thinks that 20 Republicans Senators are going to suddenly find a conscience. As to what happens, I don’t see any further impeachment actions until after the election, although there might be more general investigations of his wrong doing as they come up.
If he wins in 2020 then its possible they could take another shot at him but only there is evidence that he did something even more egregious than what we have seen so far. For example if he directly interfered with with vote counts, jailed members of the opposition, launched missle strikes at rival hotels etc…
And just to add this part of that comment from Graham: “They are over trying their case,”
While I don’t necessarily disagree with this comment, surely he knows that the Democrats know there is no chance that Trump won’t be acquitted (and of course he does, and we all know that) and must realize that said Democrats are trying to produce as many sound bites as possible to use in political ads. Which to my mind is the the best they can hope for. And I hope that doesn’t sound pessimistic. I believe they could be quite effective, and even more so if Trump’s team provides additional fodder for those ads.