The truth about Easter

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
21

I believe the official position is that there are eight ritual lights, plus (since it would be blasphemous to use ritual lights to see by) one to light up the room.

The move of New Years from March to January was a slow one, started very early (probably in the days of the kings) and took over 2500 years to complete (England only changed in 1752). But the change from 10 to 12 months was also in the age of the kings, long after Velikovsky’s alleged events.

The blind and a-prioriassertion that primitive cultures aren’t superstitious about astronomy is, of course, directly contrary to observed fact.

John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams

22

Tom Dark wrote:

As lame-brained as all those dopes who whoop it up in Times Square at midnight are. Winter Solstice makes as good a time as any to get drunk and scream “Happy New Year!!”, so that’s what they did. Said tradition is still carried on to this say, although the once-sacred New Year’s Festival has just gotten SOOOO commercial these days with all those Korbel ads.
– tracer, urging y’all to remember the True Meaning of New Year’s.

The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

23

“Passover” is an English gloss on a word root that is found in forms such as “Pascuas”, “Pashal” etc.

Interestingly enough the Ancient Egyptian word for the month of April/May is something like “Paschos” in Coptic and Ancient Egyptian. Putting the “Passover” word as well as the “Easter” moniker firmly in a pagan tradition.

It’s amazing how “mysterious” things can look when you don’t…look.

24

There is a definite misunderstanding about the Jewish tradition of lighting of candles at Chanukah and the Sabbath.

These are two different traditions from different roots - totally unrelated. The number of Sabbath candles lit varies from family to family - even in the most religious of homes. Many will light two or three. Some light two plus a candle for each child in the home. The number is not as critical as the use of the Sabbath light - which is flat-out specifically NOT to be used as ordinary reading light. The idea that seven canldes are lit on the Sabbath has no basis nor is there any tie to Chanukah in the orthodox traditions.

By the way, there are other candles and flames serving symbolic purposes in this religion - all of which have their own uniqiue purpose and meaning.

Keep the home fires burning!

A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants…Chuckles the Clown

I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy - Hawkeye 4077th

25

Yep. Nevertheless Shabbath candles seem to be traditionally pictured in a menorah having the room for 7 candles (not all of them necessarily used). I’ve got an orthodox cousin with 9 kids, 5 of them girls, and I’m trying to remember how many candles they light… Definitely some of the older girls said their own brachot and lit their own candles.

26

WERE ALL OF YOU SO “OPEN” TO REASON AS YOU CLAIM TO BE YOU WOULD NOTICE, THE CAUSE AND EFFECT PATTERNS OF HISTORY… SO LETS START WITH THE PAGANS UP THERE…KELLYPINK.

FIRST OFF, THE CHRISTMAS TREE, IS RESULT (EFFECT) OF THE GLOBALIZED CELEBRATION OF HOLIDAYS, THE NORSE PEOPLE’S WERE THE TREE LIGHTING GROUP YOU REFER TOO, AND I BELIEVE THAT TRADITION CAME FROM THE STORIES OF SAINT LUCIA, A CHRISTIAN SAINT, MARTYRIZED, AND REMEMBERED IN THE LIGHTING OF LIGHTED WREATHS WORN ON THE HEAD, AND THE LARGER VERSION, THE CHRISTMAS TREE… SO THE PAGAN TREE POSTULATION JUST GOT SHOT FULL OF HOLES.

SECOND EASTER, IS A RELIGIOUS CELEBRATION… DATED BY THE JEWISH AND ASTROLOGICAL CALENDAR, BASED ON MOON PHASES… THAT HAS FOLLOWED THE PRACTICE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF EASTERS CELEBRATION. IT IS TO SYMBOLIZE THE DEATH AND REBIRTH OF JESUS, A POINT CELEBRATED BY THE MAJOR CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS. AS EACH HOLY CALENDAR YEAR IS A SYMBOLIC TRAVEL THROUGH THE LIFE OF JESUS, STARTING FROM BIRTH (CHRISTMAS) TO PASSING (EASTER).

CHRISTMAS IS A BIG COINCIDENCE AS WELL… TO MOST OF AN EXTENT. IT IS NOW FACT THAT THE STAR BELIEVED TO BE THE “CHRISTMAS” STAR, IS DATED TO DECEMBER, AND CAN BE THE ONLY STAR THE MAGI SAW AND IT WAS IN THE CONSTELLATION “LEO”, TRADITIONALLY AND HISTORICALLY JUDAIC IN RELATION, AND IT WAS NOT A STAR BUT JUPITER, WHICH CARRIED A REGAL CONNOTATION, HENCE IT WAS INTERPRETED TO MEAN, AND WAS CORRECT, IN OR AROUND THE TIME OF HERROD, A KING OF THE JEWS IS BORN, AND IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF THE ASTRONOMICAL EVENT.

MAGI… MIDDLE EAST, AND ASIA… ASTRONOMICAL EVENT ON SOUTH WESTERN HORIZON… GET A MAP, AND GETTA CLUE.

CONTINUING ON…THE MORE YOU ATTEMPT TO GIVE CREEDENCE TO PAGANISM AS THE FOUNDATION FOR OUR NOW MODERN DAY RELIGIONS, THE FARTHER YOU LEAD YOURSELVES ASTRAY. USING YOUR IDEAS THEN I’LL ASK YOU TO SHOW PROOF…
WHERE IS MARDUK (THE BIGGEST PAGAN GOD OF ALL TIME, A BABYLONIAN GOD, AND WORSHIPPED BY THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST BEFORE JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY AND MUSLIM BELIEFS CAME).

WHERE ARE THE ANCIENT ROMAN GODS NOW?

SPECIALLY FOR KELLYPINK… IF THE DEVIL IS BASED ON PAN, WHY IS PAN PRECEDED BY THE DEVIL BY NEARLY 2 CENTURIES. THE CLOVEN HOOFED WONDER WAS AROUND LONG BEFORE THE LITTLE SATYR WAS… PROVEN IN EVEN ANCIENT BABYLON BY WHAT?? PAGANS THEMSELVES.

THE GOAT, HAS BEEN THE GOAT OF ALL RELIGIONS, SINCE MAN’S FIRST BABY STEPS ON THIS PLANET (THE SNAKE NOT FORGOTTEN).

SO PERHAPS BEFORE SOME OF YOU GET INTO DISCUSSIONS OVER RELIGION, YOU SHOULD TRY THE NOVEL APPROACH, OF LEARNING ABOUT THEM, AND HAVING ONE…

PAGANISM IS THE MOST BLATANT FORM OF IGNORANCE KNOWN TO MAN, IT SHOWS LOYALTY TO NOTHING, BELIEF IN EVERYTHING, AND REQUIRES NO REAL COMMITMENT…
HMM IM SURPRISED IT HASN’T BEEN ADOPTED AS THE NATIONAL RELIGION OF THIS COUNTRY BY THIS DEFINITION…LOL. OH WELL

TO HAVE WORKED FOR THE GOVERNMENT WAS NO WORK AT ALL, TO REFORM AND REBUILD THE GOVERNMENT, THEREIN LIES THE CHALLENGE.

27

And here I thought that posting misinformation in all caps with a fundie bias was the most blatant form of ignorance.

Tom~

28

“FORMERAGENT” isn’t precisely fundamentalist; he’s an all-purpose loony. As nearly as I can tell, judging from his/her/its posts so far, he/she/it’s a libertarian socialist atheist fundamentalist.

On the other hand, paganism is pretty dumb. Intelligent pagans throughout history have been compelled to play all sorts of mind games just to hold on, and have generally regarded their religion, in its pure state, as something of an embarrassment. cf. Plato.

John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams

29

HEY, NICE MENORAH, DLV. Phew, I feel better. Could you hear me from there?

Oh, I’m gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

30

Why does this even come up to breathe:

“Thus, the old anti-Christian saw that Christian holy days are just evolved forms
of more original (and thus, somehow, more true) Pagan holy days is full of shit.”

Taking over the holidays of the captured peoples or the even assuming the holidays of the capturees is older than Ur. Borrowing back and forth is as old as people. Look at the Hebrews who couldn’t keep on the straight and narrow for 10 seconds and had to drag a golden calf from someplace to surprise and not delight Moses coming down the mountain with the 10 big ones.

Christians should answer these old elderly decrepit saws by saying, “Ya, and wasn’t it a great idea, frog brains.”

'Cause, they usually were.

Oh, I’m gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

31

The point I’m railing against is the claim that Christian holy days “come from,” “have evolved from,” or, “are usurpations of” Pagan holy days.

Certainly, certain ritual have been borrowed or usurped, but the event being celebrated isn’t.

Chanakuh is historically based in the Macabeean victory over the Hasmodean Greek rulers and the cleansing of the temple. The eight (or seven or nine) day ritual of lights (thus, sometimes called the Festival of Lights) may certainly have been borrowed from Pagan culture. But a Jewish victory over an enemy (and its subsequent celebration) was not borrowed from a Pagan religion.

Jesus, as a historical figure, was born. He has a birth date. Christians celebrate that birthday as much as Americans celebrate Washington’s and Lincoln’s birthday. Celebrating birthdays is not a specifically Pagan thing. It’s a human thing. Christians do it for Jesus. Before the date was nailed down to Dec 25 in A.D. 325, it bounced around the calendar. It was a real, Christian celebration that did not evolve or borrow from Paganism. In the end, Dec 25 was chosen to specifically supplant the Pagan solstice celebrations of the time. Since then, some of the rituals surrounding Christmas were borrowed from Pagans (Christmas tree, lights, yule log, mistletoe, etc…). Some modern rituals have nothing to do with Paganism (Santa, Rudolph, candy canes, gift exchange, snow, etc…).

So, just because a ritual associated with a holy day celebration can be traced to a Pagan practice, doesn’t mean that the event that the holy day celebrates is just a re-worked Pagan holy day.

Peace.

32

Palm leaves don’t “bloom”. They’re on the damn tree year-round. Take it from somebody who had to climb up in the tree in the front yard and saw off the damn, razor-edged things.

33

You are right, but will the people who usually ask that question really care?

Oh, I’m gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

34

The real truth about Easter, Jesus and the Jewish Holy Days:

Eostre was a pagan fertility goddess and this is where the english word Easter is derived from (there are also many other variations of the word). The word easter is neither jewish nor does it have anything to do with Jesus. When Constantine declared that everyone was now Christian, due to his own “conversion” the pagan holidays were simply turned into “christian” ones.

There is one very important thing about the Jewish Holidays that “Christians” either forget or don’t realize. The Holy Days that God laid out for the Jews to remember all point to one person: Jesus. He was the fulfillment of those Holy Days. In fact the holy days were given as a “type” or “shadow” of things to come. They pointed to the Messiah.

Further, it is fairly easy to figure about when Jesus was born, and if you study the Holy Days you can even know the exact day he was born on. It is called in english The Feast of Tabernacles (or Booths), in Hebrew it is Sukkot. It was a celebration to remember the time in the desert when they lived in dwellings made out of palm leaves, etc. The word also translates into the exact thing Jesus was born in, a temporary structure. It also symbolizes God dwelling among us. (the manger scenes depicting the 3 wise men visiting Jesus there are completly false. jesus lived in a home by then, in fact they didn’t get there until Jesus was probably around 2. See Matthew 2:11 “And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.”)

There are also references in the New Testament to the time when Jesus was born if you take the time to deduce the priestly rotation that is mentioned in Luke. Please check this link: http://www.island.net/~hdokter/birth.htm (I don’t agree with their final deduction that he was born on rosh hoshanna).

When we look at all of the other events that took place on the exact same day as the Jewish Holy Day it is quite amazing. Jesus was crucified on Passover and in fact gave up the ghost and died the exact moment the Priests were slaughtering the Passover lamb in the temple (3 p.m.). He rose from the dead on the exact same day as the first day of the observance of The Feast of the Firstfruits (Jesus being the firstfruits of ressurection). The Holy Spirit came to his followers on the exact day of Pentecost (Shavout, which was 50 days after Passover).

Palm trees in bloom??? LOL! Now that made me laugh so hard I almost blew chunks.

35

One thing I haven’t seen stated about Chanukah is the fact of WHY there are 8 candles (or 9 if you count the slave candle) in a Chanukah menorrah(?) is because when they re-claimed the Temple there was only enough oil to keep the lamp lit for one day but miraculously the oil lasted 8 days, unitl they could produce more oil to burn. Thus the tradition of lighting 8 candles, one for each day that the oil lasted.

36

In the biblical studies department of my Christian college, I learned that most Evangelical scholars today believe that Jesus was born during the Spring of the year… the time that shepherds are “watching their flocks by night” because the lambs are being born. Why is Christmas on December 25th, then? Because it is a celebration of the birth… it isn’t a birth date.

Yes, the church adapted festivals already in place as Christianity migrated into other countries. The motif of the return of the sun celebrated after the winter soltice was a perfect demonstration of the idea that “the light shone in the darkness and the darkness could not overcome it,” so why not throw a party that connects a physical event to the spiritual truth?

37

So many errors, so little time.

Yes, Eostre is the name of a pagan English goddess, which got attached in the English language only to the feast that Christians had already been celebrating for centuries under various names, generally deriving from the local word for “Passover”. And Constantine never “declared that everyone was now Christian”, and he delayed his own official conversion until he was on his deathbed (which, on the other hand, was centuries before anyone Christian spoke English).

And you know this because…?

“Yup. I don’t agree with their conclusions, but their logic is impeccable.” Ahem!

John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams

38

If Jesus died while the lambs were being sacrificed for the Passover meal, how could the Last Supper have been a Passover meal?

(For all you regulars, I’m asking this fundamentalist to reconcile John’s Gospel, which has The Day of Preparation {sacrifice of the lambs} on Friday and thus Passover on Saturday; with the other Gospel writers who have the Passover meal on Friday {Thursday evening for you Goyim}.)

Basically, Blockhead, you have so many things just plain old wrong.

Peace.

39

If this continues as a religious debate, I’m gonna move it to Great Debates.

40

I guess moderators aren’t subject to flood control. :wink:

Peace.