Was Jesus born in September or October?

My friend was telling me how Jesus was born in September or October because the shepards are only out from April to October or something and the census was September to October. The reason we celebrate Christmas in December is because during September is when paganists celebrate their sun god?

December 25 is when the pagans celebrated the fact that the sun had stopped receding and had begun to return (you never knew when it might just decide to keep going). Christmas was set on that date, since it made it easier to convert the pagans if they didn’t have to give up their favorite holiday. :wink:

Heh, first of all “Pagan” isn’t a religion, so it would be when “pagans” celebrated their sun god.

In reference to the rest, I have no idea, but as far as I know, the church situated Christmas (as you said) to coincide with the Romans’ winter celebration.

Ah thanks but that doesnt explain the fact that shepards were out (Luke 2:10 or something). They would be out during the winter?

We have no idea when Jesus was born, and none of the scriptural nativity accounts tell us. If, as is suggested, shepherds in Palestine would only have been out between April and October, I do not see why your friend suggests September/October. Why not April? We do not know that the census was held in September/October; the only evidence we have that it was held at all is the scriptural evidence, and that does not mention a time of year.

Christmas is celebrated on 25 December because that date was previously used to celebrate a Roman sun-god. They chose the date because it was (close to) the winter solstice, after which days grow longer and the weather grows warmer, so it symbolised the victory of light over darkness, warmth over cold, life over death, etc. That symbolism seemed appropriate to the early Christians for celebrating the birth of Christ, so the adopted it.

I doubt if it had much to do with making it easier to convert the pagans. Getting to keep a midwinter festival isn’t much consolation if you have to give up all the cool unbridled sexual licence which used to go with it.

I have read many times the the birth of Jesus was probably around harvest time but I can’t remember the source right now. I’ll check it when I get home. The reason is not the Census though because there is no secondary evidence that that ever happened.

Haj

I remember reading that Jesus was born six months after Passover, when John the Baptist was born.
So wouldnt that make it around September- October?

See Happy Birthday Dear Yehoshua…

I buy that Jesus was born six months after J the B, but do the gospels put John’s birth at Passover? That I don’t remember.

Jesus was six months younger than John the Baptist, according to Gabriel’s statement to Mary. (Elizabeth, John’s mother, was her sister.)
John began baptizing in spring of A. D. 29, according to the beginning of Luke Chapter 3.
John was a Levite who began his work at the age of 30; cf. Numbers chapter 2.
Zachariah, John’s father, was of the division of Abijah and thus worked in the temple in mid-June, when John the Baptist was conceived, so John was born around the beginning of Spring in 2 B.C.; thus Jesus was born on or near the autumnal equinox in 2 B. C. (You will note I am disregarding the “4 B. C. or earlier” concept extrapolated from the works of Josephus, as translated by William Whiston.)
I was in a college class in December 1970 and wrote my Scripture references on the board, after the class was over; the instructor later told me that the redoubtable Professor Julius Sumner Miller was watching as I wrote; she later told me he was quite impressed. :slight_smile:
(For a Scriptural example of the use of passages from various points in the Bible, refer to the 9th chapter of Romans. :slight_smile: )

Agreed that John the Baptist was born six months before Jesus, assuming they were both full-term babies. However, Elizabeth is listed in many versions of the Gospel of Luke simply as Mary’s “kinswoman,” not her sister. She was most likely a cousin, according to the King James Version: “And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.” (Luke, 1:36).

I can agree roughly on the year. Obviously, we have heard repeatedly that the Gregorian calendar is flawed and was poorly calculated. So the exact year (by our reckoning) may never be known. But where did you get that he began his work in the spring? Simply because he would have turned 30 or 31 in the spring? “Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene, Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.” (Luke 3:1-2). Given that Tiberius Caesar ruled from 14-37 C.E. (that Gregorian calendar thing again), that would have put the beginning of John’s work at 29 C.E.

Luke doesn’t tell us exactly when John the Baptist was conceived, just that it was after his father’s work in the temple: “And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house. And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying, Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.” (Luke 1: 23-25). Italics mine.

Your logic is much better than many people’s, so I give credit where credit is due. I can imagine you did impress your professor. That was very diligent work for a college student.

Enlighten me here, please. Is there a specific Biblical or non-Biblical reference to this? I find it interesting that you have a specific time of year for Zacharias to be doing his job, which according to Luke was burning the incense inside the Temple. Perhaps zev steinhart can help as well?

according to research i have done in studying the solstice, jesus would have been born in april. the reasoning for this is the only time shepherds are in the field is during the lambing season. it is mentioned in the bible that jesus was born while the shepherds were in their fields.

almost everything you relate today to christmas started with the celebration of the solstice. the red and green colors, caroling (deck the halls as an example) bringing a tree indoors, mistletoe, the yule log and the decoration with lights.

because there was no set date for christmas the early christians “adopted” the existing solstice traditions.

OK, one more thing, then I’ll leave this alone. I believe your reference was actually to Numbers, chapter 4, verse 3: “From thirty years old and upward even until fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.” Your assumption about John’s work, therefore, appears to be erroneous. John didn’t work in the temple, even though he was a Levite (assumed because his father was a temple priest). He was a bit of a rabble-rouser and did his own thing. So he may have started doing his work much earlier than you assume. It appears John is brought into Luke 3 because he is the herald for Jesus, the one who proclaims Him to be the Messiah at the start of His ministry.

Back to the question posed in the OP: I also have read and seen (mostly on the History Channel) that Jesus was most likely born in the spring, because of the shepherds staying out all night with their flocks who were grazing in the hills. Again, like was said earlier, it would have been because it was time of lambing. Now this could also have been an obscure reference to Jesus’s birth as the Lamb of God at the same time. Just a thought.

Thanks for stimulating my curiosity about how all these things fit together!

From the Catholic Encyclopedia entry for John the Baptist

Nobody seems to be addressing the various points made in Happy Birthday Dear Yehoshua… which appeard in response to Why do we celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25?, Cecil Adams, 22-Mar-1974.

Far be it from me to claim that anything that Cecil Adams says is beyond question; I will not even say that anything in the Catholic Encyclopedia is beyond question! But it seems to me that the Bible is one of the most intensively studied texts in world history (the writings of Confucius may edge it … don’t know, sorry) and while all are, of course, at liberty to draw their own conclusions, a truly critical opinion will recognize and address the various objections.

Let’s see a **cite ** for this contention about symbolizing the victory of light over darkness.

Here is a cite supporting my contention

[Quote]
Even though we prefer to use the word ‘Yule’, and our celebrations may peak a few days before the 25th, we nonetheless follow many of the traditional customs of the season: decorated trees, carolling, presents, Yule logs, and mistletoe…
both Martin
Luther and John Calvin abhorred it,…

[sup]Opps[/sup]

Here is a cite supporting my contention:

From a Bible encyclopedia titled Aid to Bible Understanding (1971):
“According to Luke, John began his ministry in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar. John would be then about thirty years old. Though there is no record that John engaged in priestly service at the temple, this was the age for priests to enter into full duty. (Num. 4:2, 3) [I stand corrected.] Tiberius began to rule as Roman emperor on August 19, 14 C.E.; his fifteenth year would run from August 19, 28 C. E. to August 18, 29. C. E. [Common Era–d.m.] Since Jesus (also at the age of about thirty) presented himself for baptism in the autumn, John, six months older, must have begin his ministry in the spring of 29 C. E.–Luke 3:1-3, 23.”

Ta-daaah! Late December!!!

Merry Zygote-Christmas!

Don’t do anything that would make Zygote Jesus cry.

My humble opinion is I don’t think it matters so much exactly what day He was born, it just matters that we (those who desire to) celebrate His coming into the world.