I don’t think it’s a big tangle at all. First of all, there’s a big difference between requiring parental permission to check out a book or sending a notice of every book that’s checked out to the parent, and providing the financially-responsible parent upon request a list of the books currently checked out. However, even if for some reason a library won’t provide a list of currently checked out books to the parent, they will to the child,right?Even if the parent is right there.
TVeblen, does your library really not restrict on the basis of age at all? When I got my kids their cards, I had a choice of whether they got an unrestricted card, or a children’s section only card (they were only 5 at the time. High school age teenagers could only get an unrestricted card) I’m sure you don’t restrict on the basis of individual parent wishes or requiring permission to check out Harry Potter books, but if I wanted to get my 8 or 9 year old a card, is there no way to limit its use to checking out age- appropriate books?
How many libraries are filled with porno books anyways? What could these kids be checking out that is SO bad that you won’t let them read it? Worried that your precious kid will find out babies don’t come from storks? Give me a break.
You’re the one who is concerned about fundies beating their kids for reading certain books. I just thought I’d point out that if somebody beats their kid it isn’t because they found out that the kid read a book. It’s because they’re an abusive asshole. The end.
Making it the title doesn’t make it true. It is my responsibility to raise my children to be decent, honest, productive members of society. Parents are more than just wallets for paying the rent and grocery bills. It’s not just my rightto knopw what is going on in my kid’s life and provide a guiding hand, it’s my whole purpose for existing as a parent. And nobody has the right to restrict my access to information about my own kid.
There is plenty of dangerous misinformation, plenty of propaganda, plenty of slanted viewpoints and more that all requires a certain (though varying) degree of maturity to deal with and digest properly. It’s a parent’s job to know their kid well enough to understand when that child has reached the right age, if ever.
It’s not true that the umbilical cord is cut at birth? Fine, now that I know you live in a totally different universe than I do this debate is pretty pointless. But still…
If I overheard a conversation your child participated in, I wouldn’t have the right to refuse to tell you about it? They’re not restricing your access to information about your child, they’re just not providing information, because they’re not public record’s, they’re the library’s records.
Exactly. No one’s stopping you from hovering over your child every moment if it’s that important for you to do so.
What’s worse:
Over Zealous Parents that try to sheild their children from the sins of the world.
Or
Parents that don’t give a rip about their kids at all.
Or
Parents that think their precious little child never does anything wrong and is never at fault and someone else should pay for child being blamed for said crime/action/whatever.
If you want to know if your child is building a bomb, pay attention to what your child does.
I will get my child an unrestricted card and I am glad that libraries have such a policy. Just as I want my child to be able to speak freely to a doctor without fear that I will find out about the discussion. Lack of privacy contributes to insanity and some modicum of privacy is needed to maintain human dignity. It is difficult enough living in close quarters with others without the fear that everything you do will be monitored.
I withdraw my statement above to Blalron above about possibly misinterpreting MsRobyn’s statements; apparently his (?) perception of her meaning, and not mine, was the accurate one. I appreciate her desire to allow her child enough privacy until she is in dreadful fear that perhaps she’s missed something and there is danger, but cannot believe that all parents will give their children the same respect. Sadly, I believe that enough would secretly monitor their children’s library checkouts and use that knowledge to come down on the child when some “forbidden” book shows up on the list.
My concern about this issue stems from the fact that I went to high school with a lot of kids with untreated psychological problems; a few attempted suicide or overdosed on drugs to get the attention of oblivious parents.
It’s not an all-or-nothing proposition, really. I can allow Aaron the freedom and privacy he wants, but at the same time, I have to stay cognizant of his behavior and moods. This means staying involved in his life. At the same time, I don’t have to hover over him and control every aspect of his life. However, if I think he is having significant problems, I need to intervene using all available resources. This may include his library records.
I don’t doubt that some parents might use access to library records to control their kids. While I think that’s excessive bordering on pathetic, it’s not my lookout.
Robin
My parents, bless their hearts, trusted me. They had, after all, raised me. They raised me to think for myself, to evaluate all possible information and make the correct decisions. They also raised me with THEIR values, which they felt were the correct ones. (Looking back on it, I agree with them heartily.)
They NEVER searched my room, restricted my access to things they didn’t necessarily agree with or felt it necessary to check out what I was doing at the library.
However, it must be said that I never exhibited any behaviour that made it necessary for them to WORRY about what I was doing at the library. Or that made it necessary for them to search my room, either. If I HAD exhibited behaviour that gave them concern, I am sure that they WOULD have. In fact, I am sure that they would have been over it in a “New York Minute.” And now, as an adult, I would have to say that they not only had the RIGHT to do so if that had been the case, but the OBLIGATION.
Having said that, let me tell you something mom said to me after I was in a bad accident and had to move home for seven weeks because I couldn’t take care of myself. I was VERY much an adult at the time.
When I finally moved back home, to my OWN home, we had a little trouble getting used to the separation. [sub]yeah, I thought it was wierd, too.[/sub] I finally said to my mom that we needed to “cut the cord” once again.
Mom said…“Honey, I never REALLY cut the cord. I just allowed it to STRETCH a little.”
I will never EVER stop loving that comment. Especially now that mom is in heaven and I am still here, mourning her. And you know what? She STILL hasn’t “cut the cord”…it is STILL just stretching. Albeit a VERY long distance.
Just my thoughts on the situation.
And if my child was exhibiting disturbing and/or secretive behaviour, you can be SURE that I’d be looking anywhere I could think of to figure out what was wrong…so I could HELP him or her. To make sure that nothing was going on that my child needed help with. To make sure that my child was safe. To make sure that if (God forbid) Columbine ever happens AGAIN, it wouldn’t be MY child that did it.
Librarian chiming in here on part of the OP . . .
Our library will never divulge a child’s reading record to a parent unless the child is under the age of 10. Parents are frustrated by this rule all the time; however, they are told in advance that they will not be able to access their child’s records. We do not have restricted vs. un-restricted cards. We simply have cards and borrowing rights are the same for all.
The debate as I’ve read it is focused way too much on the topic of violence. Kids are often far more interested – perhaps surprisingly so – in checking out books related to their sexuality (and by this I do not mean “sexually explicit material”) than they are about making bombs. I think it’s safe to say these kids are often seeking their own answers because they either don’t yet feel comfortable talking to their parents, or because they believe their parents may have a harsh reprisal for them.
In such cases, I feel patron confidentiality must be maintained. There is no way to juggle it. For every generous, well-meaning parent, there are a handful who are not so enlightened. Three months ago, I had a parent infuriated with me because she had “caught” her son checking out a copy of Kosinkski’s “Being There.” She said it was inappropriate for her son, who was probably about 14. She wanted to see what else he had checked out, and I refused. Blah, blah, blah. The book was left on the floor and she stormed out with her son in tow. I guess the kid should have stuck with the Babysitter’s Club series.
I realize I’m about to sound really gung-ho here, but I truly think that what a patron’s reading should be kept as confidential as a confession to a priest or a pastor. Yes, the church and the library are two very different institutions; but if there can never be a full guarantee of privacy anywhere, regardless of age, I think our country is poorer for it.
Applause!!! Bravo montag01!
It is good to hear that some charged with holding confidential records confidential won’t rollover at the first challenge like some in this thread have said they would. It does indeed make for a better country.
Parents have the ability to monitor so much of their children’s life I can’t see how allowing this small area of privacy is bad. In all the fear-mongering anecdotes related, not one demonstrates that the parent would have had not other opportunity to find out what their children were up to. I can’t believe that the only way a parent would have an indication of what the child is planning is to force a library to reveal its records. Even so, think of the children. Imagine how many would be beaten, possibly killed if their parents knew what they were reading.
I wish my parents had given me more privacy as a kid. I was always good, never got into alcohol, drugs, or sex while I lived in their house, always came home when I was supposed to and called when I was going to be late…
That never stopped mom from going through my room constantly and reading my poetry and journals. I remember when I was going through a “goth” stage of poetry (and it was all horrible!), she came across a poem I had written about hell and yelled at me for it and called me all sorts of names. I was 15.
(My parents are fundamentalist Christians, by the way.)
Anyway, the only thing my parents never censored me in was reading material. I read anything and everything I could get my hands on, including The Anarchists’ Cookbook, which I rolled my eyes at.
I remember my mother beating me for owning a Red Hot Chili Peppers CD, now she sings along with my sister’s rap music, which is at least 5 times worse. Hypocrite. Hypocrite. Hypocrite.
I may have bias on it, and I would not have minded if my parents had actually had REASON to believe I was doing things I shouldn’t, but they didn’t. They mistook my quietness for secrecy and my eccentricity for evil.