So writes Ellen Rittberg, self-appointed guru of dealing with teens.
Yes, that’s what she advises you do to your teenage kids. Not to your eleven or twelve year-old, but your teens. Teens, the very age when they’re developing their own identities and moral code. The very age when doing shit like this to them is almost guaranteed to get them to hate you.
Really great parenting advice, eh? What a terrific way to get your kids to respect you, to take your advice.
More likely, a parent who follows this prescription will drive their kid(s) further underground, and make it that much more likely they’ll keep secrets from them. A perfect prescription to encourage them in deceit.
And, of course, if you read their e-mails, browse their diary, etc., consider it a given that they’ll probably learn to never trust you and, more importantly, to despise you. What a neat way to drive a wedge between you and your kids.
Makes me sick to see that this type of horseshit is considered proper advice for parents.
I’m pretty sure most of these writers think that you can somehow do all this without being caught.
And, honestly, I could get behind it as an occasional thing. Though I’d prefer that you’d have mentioned that to the kid. They can only get the privacy they earn.
As a custodial parent who pays for the e-mail service, test messages, and shower water that the kid is using, I have every right in the world to do that and more if I feel it’s warranted.
I think doing so on an ordinary, on-going basis, without any specific reason to harbor suspicions, is truly poor parenting.
Apparently I am one of the few parents I know of, who does not hover behind my child reading over her shoulder when she is online. I have no desire to read her texts. Besides she tells me anyway what’s going on, she’s shares freely whatever drama of the day occurred at school. I try not to be quick to judge or reactionary, otherwise she’ll choose not to share anymore.
I am not against snooping to scope out a situation. BUt to go behind her back and rummage about her private space just to assert my authority would be damaging to our relationship imo.
There is no spectrum from youth to maturity in which development of identity overrides absolute authority over your kids’ privacy? Does the authority vested in custody end on their 18th birthday?
You seem to link your right to review on who is paying for the service. If a kid gets a part-time job, does that extinguish your absolute authority? Say it’s a job that covers a cell phone, so there is no traceable cost to the house (he/she even buys a solar charger).
I think that using who-is-paying-for-things as a source of authority is also weakened a bit in that it would strike most as preposterous if someone were to say “my wife does not work outside the home, we have no children, and I hire a cleaning service to do daily chores. Therefore, as the person who pays for the e-mail service, text messages, and shower water that she is using, I have every right in the world to do that and more if I feel it’s warranted.”
I don’t doubt that there shouldn’t be an absolute right to privacy for children. I daresay the “feel it’s warranted” justification is preeminent. Do you (the editorial you) find that the standards for reading private correspondence change over time? That is, would you be quicker to read a fifth graders’ email than a tenth graders’? Does it depend on the ostensible justification (not ok to see if they’re planning on cutting class to attend senior day, is ok to see if their doing heroin)?
I have a five-month-old. The Dude’s got no privacy at the moment. I have no idea how that will change as he gets older – but I do know that these types of threads are much more interesting to me now.
I have to ask the same thing, Bricker. Because I genuinely did not deserve it - I never got into drugs, or alcohol, came home with straight A’s, and while I was endlessly fascinated with boys, did not have sex until I was 19 and 11 months! (MY choice). And yet my parents searched my room all the time, whenever they wanted. It gave me such a lack of trust that to do this day I have a hard time with the completely innocent question, “What’s this?” if something is found. It’s innocuous, but my knee-jerk reaction is still to lie about it and I have to consciously control it.
Why, I remember writing a letter to a friend, a BOY, who was going to the college I was considering. I made the mistake of writing it on the computer where my family could find it. Trust me when I say it was an innocent letter! But of course, they snooped, and they found it, and that turned into a week-long fight.
Teens need some privacy, IMO, to grow up. Snooping on them constantly isn’t going to let them grow up.
I agree, but I also like Rhythmdvl’s point about that right not being derived from the economics of the situation. Rather, it comes from the fact that the parent is legally and morally responsible for the kid’s health and safety.
I agree that there are two distinct situations here. One is routine, every day snooping and I think that’s without question bad. Kids earn trust by being trusted and not abusing that trust.
The second case - where something specific triggers a suspicion is entirely different. In that case as long as the intrusion is on par with the potential crime I have no problem with it.
My kids are 12 and 15. If one of them snaps a cell phone closed in the middle of a text when I enter the room or immediately goes to a different screen on the computer I investigate. Right there in front of them. And if it becomes a pattern I’d likely investigate without them knowing as well.
Might I suggest the radical notion that perhaps different teenaged individuals are different and thus require different parenting approaches? I feel like I need to keep a fairly close eye on my stepson, who has made some poor choices in the past, in the hope of forestalling future poor choices, though I try to be as trusting as I can. I’m certainly nowhere near as draconian as the OP’s quote suggests.
That doesn’t address the linkage between paying the bills and snooping authority.
It also makes for a vague and empty post – it can mean almost anything; hence my questions of spectrum and changing privacy.
What is justified? An annual snoop to make sure The Dude isn’t pulling the wool over my eyes? What source is this reasonable feeling supposed to come from, if so much communication is now taking place online? If I know the Dude is sleeping with his girlfriend (in time), can I occasionally snoop to find out whether or not they are considering an abortion? If I think my son may be gay, can I snoop to find that out – even if I’m only doing it to make his family life easier and accepting?
Rather than focus on easy answers (of course snooping is ok if heroin is involved), what about areas where there is clear suspicion of contravening house “rules,” but rules that don’t rise to life and limb? Bricker’s post seemed to say “humph, my house, my rules, I’ll do whatever I damn well please if I want. I’m not going to bother the kid unnecessarily, but my authority to tell them what to do grants me permission to check up on them.” That’s a choice many parents make. I have no idea if it’s the right choice.
Perhaps it comes down to this: even on suspicion of breaking some household rule, at what point (if any) is the kid allowed to have private space to discuss/refer to said rule-breaking?
My policy was always to discuss things with my kids and to trust them until they gave me a reason to not trust them. There were no preemptive searches or any general snooping going on.
I’m sure like any teen, there were things going on under the radar, but they both were very trustworthy teens and grew up to be fine adults.
All that said, ever kid is different and every situation is different. Hell, I had to deal with my two sons differently. So, I’m not gonna judge a parent who takes a different approach when it comes to stuff like this.
IANABricker, but I raised two children past teen age and into adulthood, so…
At least in my case, it isn’t simply paying the bills, but the combination of paying the bills and being custodial parent. Both are important. Because the justification for the kind of snooping described (on an ad hoc basis, not as the default) is twofold;
[ul][li]My house, my rules, AND [/li][li]Because I am your father (Luke Skywalker)[/ul][/li]
Any and all of the above, and other stuff I probably haven’t thought of yet. Basically, if I think it might be in your best interest for me to know something that you don’t want me to find out about, I will see if I can find it out. I shouldn’t (and don’t) act merely out of idle curiosity. I need some kind of reasonable suspicion. However, the hunch that you are up to something constitutes reasonable suspicion in my house, when dealing with a minor child.
And you do not have the right to remain silent, there is no exclusionary rule, I am judge, jury, and executioner, and don’t take that tone with me, young man - I used to change your diaper.
There isn’t any. Hence what I said about no exclusionary rule.
Like I said, I don;t think this kind of snooping should be the default. However, I don’t react with horror to the very idea, and I don’t believe the kind of untroubled faith that “I am the daddy and I am in charge” on which I based much of my parenting necessarily leads to distrust on the children’s part.
Obviou8lsy it changes as the kids grow up, But trust is earned, not given. But the fact that I learned that you went to a party at Mary’s when you told me it was a sleepover at Steve’s by reading your text message on your PC does not affect the grounding. IYSWIM.
It seems that parents too often try to be buddies with their children rather than parents. My children already have biddies. If I fail, they don’t have any other fathers to fall back on. This is not usually a conflict, but occasionally it is. I am not afraid to do things that make my children mad at me. Sometimes I am wrong to do so. The rest of the time, I am not.
Children need rules, and they need someone to enforce those rules. Otherwise, the6y can grow up to be assholes. As I have mentioned, previously, I raised the two most wonderful, charming, intelligent, high-spirited and thoroughly delightful children on the face of the planet. (Go ahead - ask for a cite. I dare you.)
“Sneak, lie, dissemble. Hide shit where your parents won’t find it. Plant innocuous-looking decoys and conceal everything else with hidden folders and strong encryption.”
Heh. I used to say to my daughter all the time “I’m disturbed that you lied/cheated/snuck out/etc. I’m even more disturbed at how badly you SUCK at it. Seriously child, that was just weak.”
As the OP’er, I really want to thank you for being so candid. You’ve clearly “overcome” what was done to you and are obviously more than insightful.
OTOH, other, less insightful, people might not have come through it so successfully and, to use a hackneyed term, wind up being so “together”. And that is why I opened this PIT thread. Despite the ostensibly good intentions of the author, my bet is that more harm than good often comes from such an arrogant approach.
Well, you can certainly try. And if you can hide it from me, you have a better than average chance of getting away with it altogether.
The difficulty is that most people think they are committing the Perfect Crime. Even as they forget to delete their browser history. IIRC it was hotpaintballbabes dot com or something, that was downloading viruses to his laptop. The only thing that bothered me was that he was at least as interested in the paintball as he was in the babes.