Good lord…I wish sometimes the US could go back to isolationism. If there was a guarantee some fucking rogue country from elsewhere wouldn’t include us in the rest of the world’s bullshit. That’d be fucking great!
We’ll just stay the hell out of it, completely. I’d love it…but ya know what? Y’all (the world) wouldn’t leave us the fuck alone and now ya gotta deal w/ it.
You goddamned straight we’re more good than bad. Let’s just pick as much bad as we can come up with and provide that as evidence.
I think it’s a fucking shame everyone thinks the US is responsible for the fighting in the middle east! That shit has been going on for how long now? It’s about time somebody put a stop to it before it gets completely out of hand. (like it’s not already)
There wouldn’t be an Israel if the US hadn’t backed it. Yeah I know we didn’t do it alone. BUT no one else would have if we didn’t. So keep your anti-semite BS to yourself. Besides Adolf Eichman tried to send Jews to ANYONE who would take them…NO ONE DID. I know that doesn’t make ti right. BUT don’t point your finger either.
You don’t want to know how many folks I’ve lost in other countries wars, because THEY fucking asked us to help.
I’ll tell my dead relatives they were being selfish.
I’ll tell ya one last thing…my wife AND daughter BOTH have muscular dystrophy…my job was “streamlined” last year, and it’s a bitch makin it some months…BUT ya know what, I know it can get worse and a lot of people have it worse around the world. SO, my family and I spend AT LEAST one/usually two weekends a month on charitable events and send as much as possible to different world charities either in time, work or $$.
There are millions of Americans who do this.
I’m sorry, this is turning into a rant…it’s late, maybe I’ll be back tomorrow in a better mood. I’ve just heard too much of this crap lately.
Peace…
It is incredible the amount of anti-american sentiment around at the moment.
People should remember all the great advances in science that have come out of the United States. We should all respect the USA for this. It is truly a great nation, and one that on balance (tipped firmly in the US favour) historically has benefited society.
At this point in time the Bush administration is ruining things a fair bit, but the current administration will pass, hopefully not leaving to much global damage in their path, and the US will continue to be a country that on balance has done more good than bad.
Coax’s site looks very dodgy to me. High in conspiracy nutter content. Not a good way to put forward a convincing argument mate.
Also, there is not nation on earth, that I am aware of, that does things for a purely alturist reason, outside of The Holy See, and even that one I would be willing to debate.
I’m tired of defending the US online to people who refuse to listen to reason, and refuse to concede any points.
I’m even more tired of defending the US to other Americans.
I’ve noticed that many people confuse the government with Americans in general. America is probably the most diverse country in the world and so generalizations about Americans usually fall flat. I’m glad that Coax distinguishes between the two.
I very much value the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights. But in practice sometimes things are not so good. This is a period in U.S. history when our government has become more secretive. That’s a bad sign. Congress has become more and more ineffective. The U.S. government is no longer the servant of the general public but of conglomerates.
Coax, are you a native Norwegian? Frankly, I was a lot more content with my country before I travelled to Scandanavia thirty years ago. There I saw no poverty, no homelessness, no litter. Everything seemed so well-organized and safe. It just blew me away.
You know, its pretty much impossible for the US of A to do anything not in its own interest. For the simple, practical reason that we can get some kind of economic advantage out of anything, and we have interests everywhere. I mean, there’s almost no place and no people that we don’t trade something with.
Zoe, yes I am.
You should take a walk down Karl Johan street in Oslo today…
There’s alot of beggers/homeless people sitting on the sidewalk.
But I guess not as bad as in other countries…
And oh, simply saying ‘every other country in the world has done bad things so therefore the US shouldn’t be blamed so much’, is not gonna cut it in my opinion.
For lack of better words, ‘with great power comes great responsibility’.
What I mean with this is, when you have such a great influence on the world, and you have basically a hand in everything that happens in all corners of the world, you can’t just run your own show and not think about others.
The mistakes the US has done, has lead to alot of harm on millions of people both from the US and foreign countries.
It seems that the rest of the world can’t really trust the US anymore, specially with the whole Iraq deal.
And I’m not /that/ anti-US really, I’m just stating what I feel.
Big mistakes outweigh big as well as small favors, imo.
So the fact that the US is going to punish an aggresor nation for not adhering to the rules it agreed to outweighs that fact that they rebuild Europe and Japan?
coax: "when you have such a great influence on the world, and you have basically a hand in everything that happens in all corners of the world, you can’t just run your own show and not think about others.
"
About that you are wholly right. The Bush administration has been especially arrogant, and hamfisted in trying to rope in its allies in order to achieve its own political aims. (Though it has to be said that Chirac looks to be just as arrogant.)
But perhaps the worst thing the Bush adminstration has done by alienating the world with its arrogant unilateralist (or multilaterialist-on-our-terms) stance is to heighten the anti-Americanism to a response that also borders on irrationality. If you don’t care what bad things other countries have done historically, then there is no point asking a comparative question (who’s been the worst?). If you’re just interested in whether the good outweighs the bad or the bad outweighs the good, that’s really a philosophical question: it depends on the perspective that’s focused on, doesn’t it? (Would the world be better if Hitler had won World War II? I doubt most Norwegians think so.)
The Bush administration might have more influence on your life and your country than you would wish; they may have pulled out of Kyoto dismissively, and they may talk like blustering bullies when they address their friends; they may provoke legitimate alarm with their simplistic talk of good and evil, us vs. them. But I hope what they don’t influence you to do is to think in their black and white terms.
I seem to have read somewhere–I can’t quite recall which column or article–that in some previous poll (doubtless not initiated by Time) the US already won that designation.
Actually, no. The US worked to develop it’s influence on the world precisely so that it could run its own show and not think about others. And it most certainly can do that, and while it may be politically expedient and easier to work with other states rather than unilaterally, there’s no moral obligation to do so.
To put it quite simply - if you want someone to look out for others, etc., tell the Norwegian government to spend more money developing its military and diplomatic influence and start looking out for others. Don’t presume to tell other states what they can or cannot do with their influence and power unless you have the power/influence to force them to do it.
zoe: Yes, it is unfortunate that people around the world cannot separate american people from the actions of the current administration. American people are just as nice and intelligent as people everywhere else in the world.
I think those urban myths about most american people not knowing the capital of their own country or where on a map is Iraq do a lot to discredit the populous. Also we should not forget that it was a minority of people that elected the current administration.
We only hear about the bad things that happen in the news - the unabomber, snipers, anthax mailouts, cults and paranoid militants with ANFO. This gives the impression that violence and mass-shootings are common. We dont take that much notice of all the good stuff that happens.
So people would do well to separate the people from the administration. Not all Iraqis are murderous lunatics either.
coax: Like tristan said, the USA has done a lot of good in the past, like helping to rebuild Europe and Japan. We should not just focus on the bad that they are involved with now - punishing one country for flaunting a UN resolution and ignoring others. eg Security council resolution 1402
zoe: Yes, it is unfortunate that people around the world cannot separate american people from the actions of the current administration. American people are just as nice and intelligent as people everywhere else in the world.
I think those urban myths about most american people not knowing the capital of their own country or where on a map is Iraq do a lot to discredit the populous. Also we should not forget that it was a minority of people that elected the current administration.
We only hear about the bad things that happen in the news - the unabomber, snipers, anthax mailouts, cults and paranoid militants with ANFO. This gives the impression that violence and mass-shootings are common. We dont take that much notice of all the good stuff that happens.
So people would do well to separate the people from the administration. Not all Iraqis are murderous lunatics either.
coax: Like tristan said, the USA has done a lot of good in the past, like helping to rebuild Europe and Japan. We should not just focus on the bad that they are involved with now - punishing one country for flaunting a UN resolution and ignoring others. eg Security council resolution 1402
Neurotik: *" Actually, no. The US worked to develop it’s influence on the world precisely so that it could run its own show and not think about others. And it most certainly can do that, and while it may be politically expedient and easier to work with other states rather than unilaterally, there’s no moral obligation to do so.
To put it quite simply - if you want someone to look out for others, etc., tell the Norwegian government to spend more money developing its military and diplomatic influence and start looking out for others. Don’t presume to tell other states what they can or cannot do with their influence and power unless you have the power/influence to force them to do it."*
Neurotik, are you really serious here?
I mean, the “show” the US wants to run consists in continuing to be the most powerful economic and military power on the globe. Bush’s preemptive doctrine actually spells that out: indeed, if Norway could ever be imagined to pose a military threat to the US, it too could (in theory of course) become subject to preemption.
More important, Bush’s Kyoto and missile treaty unilateralism, the preemptive doctrine, and now the hardball pressure to execute that doctrine by invading Iraq on the US timetable is bound to make other countries feel concerned–or worse.
Your advice–use what muscle you have to have play power politics or shut up–isn’t what the US has been preaching in the years since WWII. Nor is it a very good idea! In fact, to the extent that France and Germany have been doing that–using their superior power in Europe for power’s sake–I disagree with their tactics.
If powerful countries aren’t willing to collaborate with their less powerful allies with a degree of good faith then they are simply imperialists, and they are likely to reap the world’s distrust and scorn. Why should anyone want to help them, in that case, if they become subject to terrorism or even just irrational hatred abroad?
Actually antechinus, I’ve been supporting the French/German proposals in several threads. But I was very put off by Chirac’s remarks to the Eastern European countries which were a bit Bush-like; that is, it made the French actions seems less like bona fide internationalism and more like the kind of power game Neurotik seems to be describing.
I’m not sure what exactly has motivated the North Koreans: maybe just bravado. But in either case I don’t think the Bush administration’s policy has been helpful there at all.
Actually antechinus, I’ve been supporting the French/German proposals in several threads. But I was very put off by Chirac’s remarks to the Eastern European countries which were a bit Bush-like; that is, it made the French actions seems less like bona fide internationalism and more like the kind of power game Neurotik seems to be describing.
I’m not sure what exactly has motivated the North Koreans: maybe just bravado. But in either case I don’t think the Bush administration’s policy has been helpful there at all.
Coax, the US has done far more BAD than GOOD. The US is the most hypocritical nation on Earth. We have no respect for the Rule of Law, despite what other posters say on this thread. We have subverted democracy in every country we intervened in. Hell, we don’t event support democracy in the US.
