If it aint broke, dont fix it.
No tipping at fast food is the norm.
If there is one thing I am certain of after having worked for tips for 30 years it is that having to work for tips is degrading and humilitaing. I try not to alter my behavior in the presence of a generous tipper but I am sure I do. I also try and give excellent service to everyone regardless of the likelihood of a tip but it is not easy.
The fact is, tippers and non-tippers are two different types and the argument against tipping, while valid is merely an effort to avoid appearing cheap and to rationalize anti-social behavior. The custom is established, it’s a done deal, you can’t change it and whining about it simply helps everyone else identify you as the stiff that you are.
As for the fact that many waiter/waitresses make a good living, well why the heck shouldn’t they? Do you think they start their service career at a top restaurant. Those persons deemed to be the cream of the crop in any industry get paid a premium. If you want to eat at such a restaurant, pay it, if you don’t stay home. The world will be a nicer place.
The American tipping system comes across to me as slave labour being forced to apply emotional blackmail to someone who just wants to chill and enjoy themselves to get any sort of a living wage while the employer pockets the money they should be paying their staff.
I find it particulary obnoxious when in a bar you have to tip every single time you buy a drink and they have stunts like ringing a bell if someone gives a big tip and the poor sods serving you are relying on you for money .
In the meantime
Have I tipped enough ?That bloke over there doesnt seem to be very lucky tonight should I wait until he can serve me?
We’re supposed to be enjoying ourselves not getting stressed out or going on guilt trips .
We dont tip bus drivers or cops its just a confidence trick by less then scrupulous companies.
A previous poster said that if the tip was added to the price we would still be paying the same .
Well Im quite happy to do that ,its not the cost that bugs me its the tacit hassling.
Also "if you cant afford to tip then have your dinner at home "
I would respond with “if you cant afford to pay your staff a living wage then dont go into business,leave it to somebody who can”
The fact is, tippers and non-tippers are two different types and the argument against tipping, while valid is merely an effort to avoid appearing cheap and to rationalize anti-social behavior. The custom is established, it’s a done deal, you can’t change it and whining about it simply helps everyone else identify you as the stiff that you are.
“As for the fact that many waiter/waitresses make a good living, well why the heck shouldn’t they? Do you think they start their service career at a top restaurant. Those persons deemed to be the cream of the crop in any industry get paid a premium. If you want to eat at such a restaurant, pay it, if you don’t stay home. The world will be a nicer place.”
Lust for Life says "I would respond with “if you cant afford to pay your staff a living wage then dont go into business,leave it to somebody who can”
It’s not a question of being able to afford it. It’s a fact of life which is not going to change. Go out to eat and be willing to pay the tip - if you make the menatl adjustment in advance that you are going to add 20 % for decent service you will enjoy yourself a lot more. And no reasonably priced restaurant could go into business by paying waitstaff the $20/hr minimum it would take to live in many cities and be competitive with those paying $2.15. It just isn’t possible.
What I find a little strange about these constant threads is that I don’t think about tipping. It’s custom. I do it. I don’t worry about it or fret over it or begrudge it.
Going to a tipless system would help more servers than it hurts, so I’m for it. But I don’t expect it to change, so I’ll continue to bumble along with my (usual) 20%.
Edmonmt, Alberta, Canada, here.
I know a waiter, who has been with the same upscale restaurant since the 1970’s. He still makes "minimum wage (nefore tips).
After tips, he makes about $75 k/yr.
He works late nights
He know the menu inside out and know just what the cook can and can not do in modifying changes to the menu
he is highly skilled in wine, and although is not an official somienlier (SP?), he could be
His service is perfect… simply perfect… he senses the mood of the table and responds acordingly
he never interupts, but is always available
he does it with grace and makes it look easy
He remembers the names an d preferences of regulars, but never assumes
he speaks 4 languages
he treats the $40 tab as respectfully as he treats the $800 tab
he never screws up a reservation
in short… the guy deserves what he makes
regards
FML
edit: posted under wife’s account
re: above post: d’oh!
As I’ve said before in these incessant arguments, there’s a perfectly ethical way to not tip: before you’re seated by the hostess, say, “Listen, I don’t believe in tipping, and I don’t plan to tip at the end of this meal.” Repeat this warning to your waiter.
By doing so, you’re giving the restaurant the ability to enter freely and with full information into whatever deal they want to enter into with you. If you do not do so, then you know that they are assuming that you’ll tip and are treating you accordingly; you’re knowingly taking advantage of their misunderstanding of their intentions; and you are thereby behaving in a deceitful fashion.
But if you give them full information, then you’re good to go. Just don’t be surprised or offended if, when they find out you choose not to tip, they choose not to serve you. It is, after all, their choice to make, once they have the information they need to make their choice.
Daniel
FML you forgot the name of your restaurant.
The fact that you make this “sincere” effort to be upfront with the waiter and manager, how does this protest the waiter who has to wait on you or lose his job? It doesn’t and of course you know this. Don’t be surprised if someday you stumble into a really nice restaurant where one of the long time employees is retiring and after a wonderful meal with plenty of great wine and a polite thanks to the waitstaff, you get your ass kicked to a bloody pulp in the men’s room.
i don’t know hot to edit, sorry, i meant “protect.”
or type.
Some time ago, I asked hereabouts about waiting and tips and in the course of the thread was told that there was a hierarchy - basically you proved yourself at the cheap places before getting hired at the expensive ones. The wages were the same but the tips - and thus the income - went up proportionally.
I should be clear: I don’t think this is a good idea (and I apologize for suggesting otherwise before). I just think that it removes one of the major unethical factors of non-tipping, which is that you’re entering into a transaction that you can enter into only by disguising your intentions from another party in the transaction.
You’re absolutely right that waiters can get screwed by this. But it gives waiters more wiggle room than they get if you fail to mention your intentions. For example, a waiter can expend minimal effort on your table, prioritizing customers who will pay for service. Or they can speak to the manager, who may decide not to serve your non-tipping ass, as is their right.
But waiters with sucky managers are still screwed, and you’re right to point that out.
I bring this issue up because most of the self-righteous non-tippers fail to mention that aspect of their personality to establishments until it’s too late for the establishment to decide what kind of bargain they want to strike with the srnt. If we can fix that problem, we’ve made a start.
Daniel
The trouble with getting rid of the U.S. system, of course, is that ALL restaurants would have to get rid of it all at once. The way I figure it, getting rid of tipping absolutely necessitates a significant increase in the cost of the food. If all the restaurants DIDN’T do it at once, people would simply go to the ones that didn’t get rid of tipping, because hey, it’s cheaper. The ones that got rid of tipping would fold, and we’d be back to the same state of affairs.
Actually, this brings up a REALLY good question in my mind for you non-American Dopers who’ve visited the States: do you find that restaurants here (which have tipping) are cheaper than they are in countries which don’t have expected tipping?
Because if not, then I have to wonder who’s bringing up the argument that the menu prices are cheaper here BECAUSE of expected tipping…