The use of "English" in billiards

Staff Ian I am afraid, got this one wrong.

Having wasted many hours playing the game with English and Irish players, I always understood the term to have been applied by Americans to the practice of English players who first developed the practice of ‘swerving’ the ball to get around obstacle balls. The vast compendium of unformation comes to the rescue again… man, I love the internet.

Accordong to “A Brief History of the Noble Game of Billiards” by Mike Shamos, viewable at
http://www.bca-pool.com/history/hist.htm

“The leather cue tip, with which a player can apply side-spin to the ball, was perfected by 1823. Visitors from England showed Americans how to use spin which explains why it is called “English” in the United States but nowhere
else. (The British themselves refer to it as “side.”)”

For etymologists, this site also reveals the origins of other billiard/pool related terms, like ‘billiard’ and ‘pool’ along with ‘cue’, ‘bank shot’ etc.

The column being referenced is: <url=http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/menglish.html>What’s the origin of “English,” the kind you put on a ball?</url>

Please, it helps to reference the column you’re commenting on, so that everyone can be on the same page.

The URL is http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/menglish.html

Anyway, this has come up a number of times since I wrote that piece, and really, I’ve yet to see any conclusive evidence. In fact, the more I’ve dug, the more contradictions I’ve found. Was it one English guy, or a troupe, or a reference to English players in general? If it was one guy, was he English, or just named that, or both? And why, oh why, doesn’t anyone record this story at any time in the 1800’s? Sure, the OED records this story, but not - repeat, NOT - as an explanation of the term’s origin, merely as a cited quote, exemplifying the contemporary usage of the term.

The most notorious version of the story in question appeared in the Sunday Times, and mentions a gentleman who came here from across the pond and “impressed the Americans with a demonstration of the effect of ‘side’ on pool or billiard balls.” Nice, but, this article appears in 1959, some 90 years after the term has appeared in print. Worse, the incident is said to have taken place “during the latter part of the [19th] century”, and unless you typically refer to the 50’s as the latter part of the century, you’ve got to come to the conclusion that this is more a friend-of-a-friend story than a horse’s-mouth version. As you say, you gotta love the internet, but you also gotta hit the books, and the books don’t back this one up.

I will, however, withdraw the comment I made that “most other sources agree”; this comment is true only of the sources I hit before writing the column, while others I’ve looked at since then have advanced other theories, among them this one, and the notion that “English” was used to describe anything deceptive or sneaky, according to the custom of ascribing negative characteristics to one’s enemies or rivals. However, not one authoritative source will definitvely declare the above anecdote to be the true origin of the term, and until such time as someone can furnish a record of the story within, oh, 8 decades of when it is supposed to have happened, I can’t see any reason to give it any more credence than any other plausible but unsubstantiated piece of folk etymology.

Ian

When I read your column, my gut reaction was that it couldn’t possibly be right. “English” on a pool ball deriving from “Body English”? Surely it would be the other way around. So, what were your original sources? I’d like to look them over myself.

To my chagrin, I can’t find them. Wrote that almost a year ago, and I’m sorry to say I didn’t bookmark the web sites I found, or keep a bibliography on the book sources. Nothing authoritative, I must add; I’m remembering a wacky “origins”-type book I found in the stacks, took some notes, and walked out, thinking I had the goods, since it confirmed what I’d found online. I didn’t own Morris then, or Barnhart, and if I had, things might have turned out very differently. Anyway, after the question came up here, I remember writing to one of the web sites I found, asking for a source, but never did receive a reply. Anyway, I think this is one that deserves another, more wishy-washy answer, and I’ll write something up for Cecil before too long.

Can I add an English perspective?
Putting English on a ball is similiar to eating an English muffin - neither term means anything here in England. We use the term “side” (not to hard to figure out the origin) for putting lateral spin on a pool (or snooker in our case). Otherwise it’s “top” for top spin and “screw” for back spin.
We don’t have anything remotely like English muffins at all.

Yeah, but how about French fries?

Colin Wilkinson writes:

> We don’t have anything remotely like
> English muffins at all.

Yeah, you do. Crumpets are approximately the same thing.

Yeah, you do. Crumpets are approximately the same thing.

But we’d never slice one open and fill it McEgg and McBacon and McCheese.

Much better to spread it with butter and lick it from underneath (but that’s true of so many things in life…sigh)

I checked the “Word Detective” website. That is a very reliable and well researched site(sort of a “Straight Dope” for word origins)
and it agrees completely with Cecil’s answer- English on a ball derives from the “Body English” used to produce it; “Body English” derives from use of exaggerated gestures to communicate, i.e. it’s not “spoken English”, it’s “body English”.
The Word Detective column on this is at www.word-detective.com/070698.htm#english

DOHHH! This is mailbag, right? It agrees completely with Ian’s answer. I need my coffee!

Colin Wilkinson writes:

> But we’d never slice one open and fill it
> McEgg and McBacon and McCheese.

Neither would a lot of Americans. You need to be careful in assuming that McDonalds food is typical of what Americans like to eat. You might get the mistaken impression, for instance, that a McDonalds hamburger is a good version of that item, when in fact they’re one of the poorest hamburgers available.

I am familiar with the Word Detective and a great admirer of that forum, but I still disagree w/ them and Ian. I find no particular ‘Body English’ in the application of ‘English’ on my shots or that of any others; Top, Side or Screw. There are no particular contortions needed to strike the ball in a spot other than the middle.

The Word Dectective does agree with Ian, and it certainly could have been one of his original references. On the other hand, the Word Detective doesn’t offer much in the way of citations either. Online Merriam-Webster has “body english” at 1908, but none of my references give a date for “english” (in the billiards connotation). Since the English don’t use “english,” the OED might not be of any help, either, right? The OED site says it’s going online March 2000.

Eireson,

My primary point in posting about the Word Detective’s column was to counter the supposition that “Body English” derived from the “English” referring to a pool shot. If you feel that the column’s answer about the origin of the pool term is inadequate I will not dispute you. As a matter of fact, the arguments you raise seem to add support to my main contention.

Okay, a little progress. It probably was the Word Detective I initially got that explantion from, but I really do have a vague memory of confirming that with a printed source. But anyway, I also got a bit of info on the other front. The "English"man being described may be one Jack Carr, who is said to have been the first prolific player (1820’s) to apply spin to his shots. He also applied chalk, and toured Europe giving demonstrations of spin, and selling chalk. I can’t, however, find out whether other Europeans called his spin ‘english’ in their own language, if Carr ever made it to this side of the pond, or if not, how the term “english” got into American English through mainland Europe, which is famous for not having people who speak … well, you know. My local library lacks a copy of any decent billiards encyclopedia, so other alternatives will have to be explored. Any reference to a source that definitively offers some connections to bolster this story would be greatly appreciated.

Ian

Escellent. The Shamos link in the first page associates the term “english” with billiard play in the early nineteenth century, but the dictionary references only go back to early twentieth century for “body english.” I could see the term “body english” being derived from pool “english,” but none of this is too definitive, yet.

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I meant the link in the first post! Sheesh.

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