The Walking Dead; 2.10 "18 Miles Out" (open spoilers)

Cafe Society
101

First Dale didn’t say anything to Lori about pistols. Second, it ain’t just me that missed this oh-so-obvious clue (that I still am unsure of; again, how did Dale know Otis had Rick’s gun?). Page through a couple AV Club reviews and you’ll see plenty of references to Dale’s psychic ability.

This isn’t the only example of stupid writing (six episodes devoted to a character no one cared about; spam down the well; Glenn down the well; Lori going to get Rick and have him bring back Hershel cause Beth is sick when Rick just left to go get Hershel cause Beth is sick)

102

I went to a small school. My senior class had 40 students but I only knew a handful of kids that were younger than me. I probably knew half the juniors by name, 1/4 of the sophomores and maybe a couple of freshmen. But older kids are more known because they’re in higher profile sports, in the school paper, etc. I’ve ran into people as an adult who went to my school and know my name and who my friends were but I have no clue who they are. Randall could be lying, but it’s kosher with my experience.

Yeah I guess that’s right. I always thought that would give the story away to Rick but it never did. Dale could have been there when Shane handed Rick’s gun to him and said “Otis said to give this back to you” or something, but that’s speculation. The pistol would have given the story away, but it may have been bad writing instead of a plot point.

103

Thank you. And Ellis Dee, when Dale first confronts Shane, Shane says Otis died a hero (there is an impilcit denial) and the conversation quickly turns to Shane setting his sight on Rick in season one. In the swamp Dale didn’t accuse Shane of “killing” Otis, he specifcially accused him of “shooting” Otis–something we all know Shane didn’t do. Shane doesn’t cop to it–he didn’t do it. So again, how did Dale know Rick gave Otis his gun?

104

Shane DID shoot Otis. In the leg.

105

I really like zombie movies, but the whole ‘you should be doing women’s work like cooking because you have a vagina. Let the men guard for zombies.’ talk from Lori caused me to leave the room. Grrr.

106

I submit that this isn’t an example of stupid writing at all, but rather an example of how stupid the AV Club writers are.

I never said Dale told Lori about the guns. Dale told Lori about Shane’s reaction. That’s the evidence he gave her.

EDIT: Shane said they were down to pistols. Shane came back with two pistols. Otis never had any pistol of his own, which we know because Herschel was so obnoxious about people on his farm having guns. Thus, Shane came back with the pistol that Otis would have supposedly been down to. Doesn’t matter whose pistol it actually is or when it was given to Otis.

107

It might get cold enough to slow the zombies down, and if there’s snow & ice they probally will have alot of problems walking, but it’s just not going to get cold enough in Georgia for the zombies to literely freeze solid.

108

This simply does not hold up. Hershel didn’t strictly forbid guns. He forbade Rick’s group from having guns (because he was afraid they would shoot the zombies in the barn, I presume). We know he didn’t strictly forbid guns because Otis shot Carl with a gun. Therefore, Dale could not have concluded Otis didn’t have his own pistol based on Hershel’s gun ban because Dale had to know that any such ban did not apply to Otis, who had at least one gun. So once again, tell me how Dale knew Otis had Rick’s gun or if you prefer, how Dale knew that because Rick still had his gun, Otis must not have had his own?

109

Who sad freeze solid? And why not? We have no reason to believe they’re warm blooded.

110

Funny, you were so quick to go off on me for missing a clue and yet appear to think Hershel’s gun ban is the missing link in the revelation chain. Is this really the explanation you think ties it all together? Seriously, or were you just making shit up? Gun ban? If there is an explanation, that ain’t it. But it’s the AV club writers that are stupid.

111

Zombies don’t lend themselves to analysis - there’s no plausible way for a human body to remain animated - let alone sufficiently coordinated and focused to give chase to another human - after the cessation of major functions. If the zombies are truly “dead” in some significant way, i.e. they no longer need to breath or circulate blood, then their tissues would die and quickly rot away and/or be eaten by clouds of blowflies and whatnot. If they’re still alive but feverishly single-minded (i.e. 28 Days Later, Zombieland) then within a week or so, they’ll die of thirst or starvation.

Either way, the zombie problem solves itself in fairly short order.

112

I agree. The winter might make them die permanently, but it also might make them even faster, or something we can’t even anticipate - we’re totally in uncharted waters here (especially since we don’t know what caused the zombie epidemic in the first place).

113

whole bean, are you one of the AV Club writers? I have no idea why you are so committed to believing that the writers made Dale “psychic.” It’s like a young-earth creationist arguing that God put dinosaur bones in the earth to fool us.

114

Dude, your last attempt to explain how “we know” Otis didn’t have his own gun (such that the post Shane-Otis-showdown appearance of both Rick’s and Shane’s pistols was inconsistent wth Shane’s story) was absurd. Embarrassingly so. Like, even if there is an explanation (and I hope there is) that ain’t it, so if that’s why you think you had this all figured out then, well, no.

I have repeatedly asked how the guns could’ve tipped Dale off and no one, especially not you, has given a logical answer. I acknowledge that Shane returning from the school with both his handgun and the handgun Otis was carrying would be inconsistent with his claim that he and Otis were down to pistols, but that doesn’t explain how Dale could’ve known what handgun Otis was supposedly carrying since Dale wasn’t there when Otis left. I am prepared for an explanation. I hope there is an explanation. Citing Hershel’s gun ban falls laughably short of an explanation and makes you look much more the young-earth-creationist-like rationalizer since we know Otis had at least one gun–he shot Carl with it.

115

You’re right. My bad. He did.

116

Question for those who’ve read the comics:


Did anyone else think the public works yard was actually the prison when they pulled up to it? Seems something like that could be a very good substitute, since it’s doubtful that they’ll be able to get their hands on an actual abandoned prison for the show.

117

All the explanation I personally need is that Dale had seen the truth of Shane’s character. That he’d seen Shane seriously considering shooting his best friend in the back to maintain what he think should be his.

That he didn’t feel right about Shane’s story of what happened to Otis, watched Shane’s personality further devolve in the days after it and then when confronted with the suspicion Shane pretty much admitted it for not denying it.

–

Finally watched this last episode. More demonstration that the zombie infection doesn’t have a hard speed limit but rather limits the zombies speed to slightly slower than whatever they’re chasing.

Also, by the time the wrench went through the window there’d been noise from other zombies, cars driving around, loud arguing, gunfire, a big fight with two guys throwing them around, and a guy screaming that he shouldn’t be killed.

All the talk of how they’re attracted to noise and yet not one of the zombie horde in the building responded in any way until the wrench went through the window.

Did like Shane’s amazement at the lesson that it is quieter to stab them than shoot them. Guess it was in one ear and out the other when the guy with the crossbow was doing that.

Good to know that when exiling the stranger Rick wants to drop him in a place where he has the best chances. Bad to know that in his estimation this is a visually complex place of the type zombies have been seen to horde instead of vast fields with long, clear sight lines where a person could carefully approach wherever it is they want to go.

Was hoping that after getting rescued Shane had said “see, told you you couldn’t make the hard decisions…”

118

Timeline of the Shane/Otis thing (single line per event for a sense of timeflow):
Shane and Otis go to get supplies. As they are leaving, Otis puts his rifle, the same one he shot Carl with, in the vehicle. Shane glares at him. Otis says something along the lines of, “Sorry, it’s the only one I have. It’s the only gun here, actually. I need to take something with me.” Rick gives him his sidearm to take.

Rest of the gang is brought back from the highway and filled in on the situation.

Shit goes down with Shane and Otis.

Shane returns and tells the whole group they were out of ammo in the rifles and down to pistols. Also that he had 5 rounds and Otis had 4 (or vice versa). Dale seemed to notice that Shane had two pistols at that time, as well as both rifles.

At the memorial for Otis, Dale notices Rick has his sidearm again even though he’d loaned it to Otis and Shane and Otis supposedly had a single pistol each(something that Rick really should have noted, himself)

Dale, being more suspicious now, decides to get rid of the guns and takes them to the swamp. Shane follows and confronts him.

Dale says, “I know what kind of man you are. I saw you draw down on Rick. I think you shot Otis or left him there so you could escape.”

Shane laughs and says, “Give me the guns. You think I could shoot my best friend in the back? You think I shot someone I don’t even know? What do you think I’d do to someone I don’t like?” and grabs the guns and leaves.

Dale goes to Lori and tells her, “I think Shane shot Otis. He’s a loose cannon.”

Lori repeats this to Rick.

Rick confronts Shane and goes on a fishing expedition by saying, “I know what really happened.” without actually saying what happened.

Shane confesses to it, claiming to have done it to save Carl.

119

[QUOTE=obfusciatrist]
All the explanation I personally need is that Dale had seen the truth of Shane’s character. That he’d seen Shane seriously considering shooting his best friend in the back to maintain what he think should be his.

That he didn’t feel right about Shane’s story of what happened to Otis, watched Shane’s personality further devolve in the days after it and then when confronted with the suspicion Shane pretty much admitted it for not denying it.
[/QUOTE]

which is to say, “I don’t need a logical explanation. I’m content with the Dale-has-known-guys-like-Shane explanation, also known as lazy writing.”

Thanks. One question. How does Dale know Otis had Rick’s pistol?

120

To follow up on my last question to markm, sure I can guess at a lot of ways that Dale might have known Otis had Rick’s gun–Rick might have told the group; Dale might have asked Rick; Dale might have asked Shane; etc. But requiring this sort speculation about a critical plot point is bad writing. I should not have to fill in that gap. And to preempt the predictably smart ass response along the lines of “they don’t have to show us Rick opening his eyes for us to conclude he woke up in morning,” consider that this isn’t just some minor detail. This piece of information forms the foundation for Dale’s suspicion. I honestly hope that they have shown us how Dale knew Otis had Rick’s gun, and I just missed it. I am waiting to be pointed to the scene. If that is not the case, then this is an example of bad writing of the sort that reduces this show to just another 43 minutes of adrenaline and melodrama.