The quote was ‘we will not’.
The implication that liberals lie more than conservatives is itself in need of a fact check.
And people have done it. I’m not even going to bore you by going and finding the results.
The Romney campaign is running ads with lies about Medicare too.
So? Ryan once supported something, which the GOP House adopted. Has he completely changed his mind about that? Will he never ever try it again?
It’s a legitimate point.
This is a nutshell. The conservatives have been so successful in playing the refs and moving the goalposts that they naturally assume they can do as they want with the Ball of Truth, and any media that get in their way will be relentlessly attacked.
Fact check: brontasaurs are extinct, and therefore cannot shit. Stop making misleading statements!
They don’t lie more, what’s different is that they make false accusations of dishonesty. Routinely.
The facts in the Romney Medicare ads are debateable, not false.
The commercial claims that is Romney’s plan, which it’s never been. It’s not even Ryan’s plan anymore. Ryan heard the criticisms of it and changed it.
That’s been said a lot recently (including Jon Stuart), but it misses the point.
Fact checkers are a valuable and necessary counter to advertisements which spout lies and wildly misleading spin. There’s nothing inherent in journalism to do a story on the content of a super-PAC’s latest billion dollar ad buy.
I love fact checkers, but the ratings have become gimmicky. Politifact will say “Half true”, but the statement is actually true, they just don’t like it for some reason.
Wait, what? He “heard the criticisms and changed it.”? He never considered them before? This was all news to him? Sounds a bit like the old joke about Lincoln sobering up after a three day bender and saying “I freed the what?”
Did he show the plan to anybody before he sent it onto the House? Nobody in the House saw anything wrong with it, so they passed it, and then they found out what was in it? Huh?
Are you telling us that he literally did not know what the effect of his plan would be until somebody told him? My confidence in him is waning a bit, how about yours?
Political criticisms. The original plan cost the GOP a special house election and there were recriminations against Ryan. Ryan got with Ron Wyden and revised the plan to make it politically palatable.
Ryan responded to the voters. You know, what Democrats didn’t do when designing their health care plan.
True, if the Democrats had based ACA on voter wishes rather than a naive expectation of GOP good faith, we’d have a single-payer system, or at least a robust public option.
Do please note that every single element of ACA polls strongly in favor, it’s only when the “Obamacare” label gets attached that the Pavlovian slobbering starts. And do also please note that, even so, polls that include the “Doesn’t go far enough” option show a total for that one and “About right” that strongly exceed the “Repeal” option.
So, just to ask again, since you’ve had time to research the issue by now: What does the GOP plan to replace it with, once they’ve repealed it all, including all the popular elements, which is all of them? If you’d rather not be reminded, we’ll understand, of course.
The polls don’t ask about every single element of ACA. The polls ask about tiny parts of it. If voters favor those parts but oppose the overall bill, you’d think a creative pollster would ask specifically what voters hate about it, but that would be right-wing bias I guess.
Voters don’t like single payer, they like their current insurance. Screw with that, and that’s the real third rail of politics.
Ah, the power of fantasy …
Could you please at least acknowledge that your guys do not and never did intend to replace ACA with anything, simply repeal it? That the “replace” part was and remains a lie?
That is my problem with the process. Any interjection of opinion makes it something other than fact checking. Again, my personal preference. If people like this system, it’s there, free speech, market forces, etc.
No, no, Elvish! That isn’t a lie, it just hasn’t happened yet! Whatsamatta you, you don’t trust them? They gave us a note, an “IOU a plan”, and they will produce that plan just as soon as they are assured of our continuing confidence and support!
I’m more of the view that the promises by the founder of Romneycare to repeal Obamacare are the key lies at present, since “replace” has disappeared from recent GOP rhetoric.
Still would be nice to see some acknowledgment, though.
That’s impossible to know until they do it. I would not call you a liar for saying they won’t replace it. That’s a fair prediction to make. Just as it’s fair to predict that Obama’s administrative changes to welfare will result in the gutting of reform.
Considering that it’s been a period of years now, and the promises to replace it with a, what did you call it, “sensible and moderate” or something like that alternative instead have never been followed up by a damn thing, and that even “replace” has left their rhetoric, isn’t it pretty damn foolish to hold out to us the possibility they might do it, as what you just did? :dubious:
IOW elucidator’s mockery is, as usual, well-placed.
I’ll just say both are predictions, and predictions are unrelated to the subject of fact checking, unless prediction results are presented as facts.