Which wild exaggeation, XT? GeeDubya led us into a war under false pretenses? The Pubbies are demonizing a harmless minority that only want what everybody else gets for free? That the President is an overprivileged mediocrity that shirked his duty and then lied about it? That the President is a man who fucked up pretty much everything he touched, was bailed out of failure after failure after failure by rich friends, and then…mirabile dictu…became a Leader of Men?
Truman benefitted enormously after the fact. When he left office, his numbers were so bad, he couldn’t have won an election against Vlad the Impaler. You could look it up. Similarly, JFK’s virtues are very much exaggerated. His support for civil rights was luke-warm and mild. Bold leadership was called for, and he reacted with faint gestures and unenforceable platitudes. It fell to LBJ, that most flawed and giant of flawed giants, to actually face the problem and do what had to be done. At a great cost, that continues to this day. So be it, we said then. What’s right is right, whatever the cost. Hallelujah! the Pubbies gloated.
Can you point to a principled, unpopular stand GeeDubya has taken?
I’m not a liberal as a cold calculated means of winning elections. I’m a liberal because it’s the right political philosophy.
Tell me, do you honestly support throwing people in prison for their beliefs? Are you telling me you want to throw the publishers of sexually explicit material in prison? Is this a mainstream view held by most of America?
I’ll tell you what’s mainstream. The desire to protect us from terrorists, and the desire to lower taxes. That’s how you guys won. But all this fascist shit you’re trying to sneak in isn’t going to fly forever.
Without even getting into the character assassination stuff (like the Nazi uniform and Nazi symbol stenciled on Bush’s forhead, the Shrub and monkey references, ect ect ad nausium), and off the top of my head, I’d say things like the breathless assertion that if Bush were re-elected there would be a draft (even though it was a DEMOCRAT that stirred that up by suggesting, for political reasons of course, that one was coming), that not only would Roe vs Wade be repealed (a slim chance at best) but that abortion would be made illegal faster than you can say ‘Bush is Evil!’, that older people on Social Security would have their checks taken away, that civil rights would take a nose dive if Bush were re-elected, blah blah blah. Want more specifics? Hell, Moveon.org is still up and running…one has merely to look at the links for ads on the website, let alone the articles. And thats just ONE 527 rabid pro-Dem source…there are many others.
From Kerry himself…well, one has only to look on Factcheck.org to see the misrepresentations from both sides. Ya, Kerry, that shinning knight of virtue, he exaggerated spectacularly several times as well with reguards to Bush. Fancy that. I’m sure you are shocked…I wasn’t. The list is pretty long though for the sins of both sides, so bring popcorn if you want to go through them all.
Your own assertions, which you state as clear eyed ‘truth’ are good examples of the Democrat propaganda machine rolling along and exaggerating at the minimum the ‘truth’. That you think they are the gods gospel is…well, ironic to me, to say the least…especially with your outraged finger pointing at the evil Republicans making similar exaggerations about YOUR guy.
It would be funny…if it weren’t so sad. I’ve watched for 2 years while both sides on this board turned a blind eye to their own side, while viciously tearing at the other with anything they could grasp. It was just more appearent and obvious about the exaggerations, mischaracterizations and out and out slander with reguard to Bush because this board was so pro-Kerry…and vocally so. I imagine that if I were on a similar board but with a huge pro-Bush stance that it would have been the same thing, just switched around. I’ve often toyed with the idea of searching one out to tug on THEIR tails some…but I doubt I’d find a board with as interesting people as generally populate this board and this forum.
Personally, I’m starting to really think the country would be better off without EITHER party, if this is how you are both going to act. I just wish I could convince the ‘sheeple’ of that.
I stated that Steve Nelson was an agent of the Soviet Union, a man who met regularly with the KGB. Espionage being a crime, I certainly support people going to prison for it.
Do you honestly support letting spies off the hook?
A mainstream view held by most prople is that the sale of porn should be controlled, as it was in Pennsylvania after Judge Cercone pushed for reforms.
To the best of my knowlege, the only porn convictions Judge Cercone actually imposed were for child pornography. I’m sure you support this as well, no?
As I said before, Cercone was a centrist Democrat, not a ranting right-winger. The fact that he’s being painted as such by liberals on this board says an awful lot about how the Democratic party has changed, and not for the better.
I’m sorry – you seem to have mistaken the meaning of “right.” And we’re not talking les droits de l’homme or the one-dimensional political spectrum – but moral soundness.
I will do the right thing, even if it costs me votes, even if the world is against me. That is what Barry said: he’d rather be doing what is right than win the Presidency.
And, frankly, so would we.
It would be very easy for the Democrats to take stances that would attract contributions from big corporations, bigoted far-rightists, etc. And it would be selling out what we stand for.
The breathless assertion about a draft? Hasn’t happened yet, all we got is people being shanghaied and press-ganged into service after their tours are up. Jebus Christo, we got grandmothers being sent into combat zones. If granny commandos doesn’t punch your “Absurd!” button, man, what does?
Roe V Wade? Your kidding me, right? You don’t think Roe V. Wade is squarely in their gunsights? I’m not at all sure they will succeed, but euros to dollars, they’re damn sure going to try!
The Social Security thing? I think that’s going to be their first truly spectacular failure. Even the lap-dog AARP is turning on them! (Disclaimer: I do not understand economics, I suspect darkly it is about as scientific as scrying with entrails, so I rely on the advice of people who’s opinion I trust, i.e., Paul Krugman. Of course, if I don’t really believe any of them know what they’re talking about, I can’t really claim that he does. So its a wash…)
As for FactCheck.org, you’d be hard pressed to find another poster who urged readers to their site more often than I did. If you can read their litany of lies and conclude it was an even break…well, ok, I guess. Your faith surpasseth all understanding, and you’re welcome to it.
And I notice that you didn’t lay a glove on any of the things I noted in the first paragraph. Whatsamatta you? Didn’t like the menu? “Oh, no, lets talk waste our time with trivialities like war under false pretenses, let’s focus our attention on that Nazi ad that never even ran!”
Nope. But it’s hard to overstate his importance. Rove is the most effective political tactician in decades. He’s absolutely brilliant, and Bush listens to him. That’s a huge benefit. George H. W. Bush did not have that sort of staff. James Baker was a middling talent at best.
George W. Bush is a uniquely gifted politician, perhaps just a step below Clinton in that regard. He’s helped by the happy coincidences of 9/11 and his party’s Congressional dominance, but by and large he connects well with people, and his personality helps him carry the day.
Hello, that’s the point. His talent was what propelled him from virtual unknown to winner in 1992. Clinton won the election, he took it from Bush, who led in the polls until the mid-summer. Clinton won it by being tactically brilliant (triangulation at its best) and having unparalleled political sensibilities. Bush helped by running one of the worst campaigns of the modern era, but Clinton won the presidency.
It being rather hard to evaluate the evidence of so long ago, it’s hard for me to say with certainty that Nelson was or was not a spy for the Soviets. Googling Steve Nelson and sedition, I found some opinion on each side. However, I’d say it’s safe to say that many prosecuted and convicted during the Red Scare were not spies and that many were persecuted for their political beliefs. Whether or not Mr. Nelson was a spy, I cannot say. But I don’t care much for those that took pride for their part in the Red Scare.
Gasp! You mean the Dems are in thrall to Big Bidness! No! Boy, not like the virtuous and chaste Republicans, huh? You’d sure never catch them whoring for corporate donations, nosiree!
What he said. I’d much rather vote for a candidate who supports the right idea and loses, than vote for a candidate who sells his soul to win.
This is not a game, despite the efforts of some folks to trivialize it as such. This is about the leadership and direction of a city/state/nation, and (among other things) the moral repercussions of the decisions made by those in power.
Must say, fascinating thread this one, wherein the Bushbots not content with merely sending your country down the crapper – a job that I must confess they are exceedingly good at, whether knowningly or not being a whole 'nother matter – are suggesting to the nearly other half of their countrymen to drop their objections and get on board to help them flush.
Fascinating indeed. Not sure which deity to thank for the likes of the spectrums, elucidators, World Eaters, Diogenes, Polycarps and a long etc. Because if it wasn’t for people like them (you) and their bulletproof integrity, I’d hold out even less hope for the future of the US – and by virtue of their undeniable influence, the rest of the world – than I already do.
Meanwhile, not that you need me to remind you, but don’t give an inch. Although I believe this whole neocon movement is akin to a building without foundation and thus will sooner or later crumble under the unescapable burden of reality, it it up to each and everyone of you to make sure it happens sooner rather than later.