Again, I apologize for going off on a tangent. And for screwing up the url’s.
I hate big weddings, where every moment is planned (who dances with whom, bouquet tossing, garter tossing, etc.). I got married in January. We planned it ourselves.
We got married at a colonial inn in Garrison NY (just across the Hudson River from West Point). It snowed the night before. All three fireplaces were lit. We invited 50 people. He wore his best suit. I bought an inexpensive white dress from JC Penny. We had two attendants, my sister and his best friend (another woman) and they wore whatever they wanted to. His two nieces did the flower girl thing because they wanted to. They were the only ones with flowers. Everything was provided by the inn–they used their own normal flowers (plus the two tiny bouquets for the nieces), their own pewter candlesticks, linens, etc. We had CDs playing classical music. We had the ceremony in front of the fireplace and everyone was sitting close enough to touch us if they’d wanted to.
We put some of our closest friends at our table. We only circulated between courses so we could enjoy the meal we had picked out. We spoke to everyone, had a fabulous time and didn’t do any of the “traditional” crap, except for the toast from the best woman. We took pictures out in the snow. My niece (from Hawaii) who had never seen snow had a blast.
I would never do it any other way. Everyone said it was the best wedding they’d ever been to.
At some point this became two threads.
Some of you are concentrating on what kind of wedding you will have - thats not what this was about… Its about the ceremony being a symbolic start to a happy marriage. Some faint notion that the perfect day might mean the perfect marriage. The reality is that even as they utter ‘till death do us part’ they are aware that more than likely they will not stay together. (correct me if I am wrong Ange)
Spooje, I concur. Here are my statistics:
Me, twice divorced (once legally, once common law)
brother married 7 years
best friend - unhappily married
aunt peg - unhappy after 30 + years
mom - divorced, remarried, seperated, got back together
dad - divorced, lived common law for years, broke up, got back together.
uncle John - divorced, remarried, she cheats.
uncle eddy - married
uncle mark - married
aunt cindy - married - had a bad spell, but happy now
aunt stacey - divorced
aunt julie - never married (she got the brains!)
For the most part, people I know who stay married are not happy, they feel smothered, trapped, and unfufilled. Those who dont stay married are broke, raising fucked up single parent children, and they arent happy either.
Marriage is a trap. You cant really get out, not really. If you leave, you are a quitter, if you are left, you are a loser. If you have kids, you are damaged goods - and OFF the market.
Marriage is an outdated concept. Maybe it can still work for some, but the statistics dont lie, it isnt working for at least half of us.
What is the alternative?
I still crave the commited love of a relationship, but I doubt I will ever co-habitate with another - I cant give up my freedom again.
I think thats the real ‘myth’ of marriage: that you can bind yourself to another, and take 2 completely different people and blend them into one. It cant be done. One must submit to the other - they cannot be equals. To retain one’s individuality is the kiss of death in a marriage.
My first wedding was put together for our families more than it was for us. I didn’t have any fun planning it or being at it and, needless to say, a little over two years later we were divorced. You can tell from the pictures that I wasn’t happy that day and I think everyone knew it was a mistake as much as I did. I’ve decided that I will never have another church wedding again.
My fiancee and I are going to Las Vegas in April and we’re getting married at the chapel at Circus Circus casino. It’s just going to be the two of us… no family, no friends. The wedding will cost us about $450 and we’ll have pictures and a video to show our family and a week by ourselves in Las Vegas for our honeymoon. After we get back from Vegas we’re going to have a reception a couple of months later at this really nice place that we found and we’ll invite all of our family and friends to that.
I worked as a wedding planner for a while. Seeing women break down in tears because they wanted teal balloons for the hall, and those balloons are clearly aqua marine, not TEAL, well, I just wanted to avoid the whole “big-wedding” hassles. After witnessing family hysterics over the stupidest little details, my boss told me never to get married, or at least marry an orphan, so I wouldn’t have to go through this myself. I agreed. (She was going through a nasty divorce while I worked for her, and the other partner in the business was her soon-to-be-ex-mother-in-law. What a happy time it was for all involved!)
Overall, weddings suck.
I have to disagree with being aware that they will more than likely not be together. At the time I did believe we would be together forever, now sometimes I wonder.
The idea that there is such a thing as a perfect marriage is insane, IMHO. I am not going to get into the specifics of the problems we have in my marriage, those are details I don’t want to share right now. I will say that things change after you are married and I do not care how long you have been together or how well you know each other… things STILL CHANGE. It is almost an entirely new relationship, and the person you felt you knew SO well is a little different that you thought, or maybe even completely different. I have talked to other married people and they also feel this way, and one of these couples lived together 12 years BEFORE they got married!
I agree that I feel smothered, trapped and unfulfilled. I do not enjoy being married. Could I have told you this before I got married… I don’t know. What I do know is that I had never thought about being married before. What am I going to do about it? Probably nothing drastic like a divorce…I really do not have a game plan for this yet. My hubby knows how I feel, he doesn’t understand it, but he knows…and yes it bugs him. I can’t help how I feel anymore than I can explain why I feel this way. We deal with it on a day to day basis, some good, some terrible. Only time will tell what will happen.
Hey, I’ve been to four weddings in my life. All cousins.
And you know what? I had a GREAT time. We had so much fun!
I’m not going to have a HUGE wedding, but I do want it to be somewhat traditional. I do want a dress, (like the Russian court dresses of the early 20th century), cake, music, and all that.
But I also want people to have a good time!
It’s not your wedding, but the wedding your mother wanted for herself if only her meddling mother didn’t barge in and take over.
What scares me, keeping with my above post mentality, is that my SIL is saving all the Martha Stewart Wedding issues for her daughter when she marries. This child ( when she told me this) was 6 months old.
I really feel sorry for this kid because she is being brain washed by her mother that
a) you are incomplete unless married and b) a wedding is a social event for the parents to show off their kids and money. And most importantly, her mother is a massive control freak and will not goes easy on her daughter’s decisions for the wedding.
At this woman’s (I shudder thinking she is a woman. Her personality is half Martha Stewart, half parroting her husband’s philosphy on religion.) wedding she wanted to go to the hall between the wedding and reception to make sure everything was going on schedule. I just looked at her and said, “This is what they do every Friday and Saturday, year after year. Let them do their jobs.”
" But I want to make sure everything is ok."
Totally annoyed with her, " What are you going to do? Get down on your hands and knees in your gown to scrub the spilled punch off the floor? Let it rest."
I, for one, did not do the bouquet tossing/garter thing, which I felt was archaic and totally embarrassing and never once in my life ever participated in the affair.
I will offer my kids money to elope and if they do thus, give them money for a down payment on a house. Something that will last longer than a 7 hour affair.
**
And you’re right. YOU are now a WIFE and all that implies and means and has always meant to you in your judgement and understanding of that word. He is a HUSBAND, with ALL that implies. ** TITLES ** that, if they aren’t thought out together and discerned what each means to the other person, usually ends in disaster.
‘Bride and Groom’ we usually get fairly easily. But the husband and wife part almost always stays a struggle unless both partners are willing to bring a lot of honesty to the table discussing their own disappointments and disillusions.
**
There IS something sadder than divorce, and I know, ‘cause I’m there. You are legally married but it’s just a sham. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. ** Angkins’, ** the biggest hope is, if your husband knows you’re unhappy, and why. He is miserable too. If there is still love and a wish for good on both sides, you can both make it better.
ONE person can’t do it. The PERSON you fell in love with, is still there, you just have to work together to keep HIM in sight. And if he still loves you, enough to listen past his own discomfort with what you may have to say, then you both have hopes for moving past where you are right now.
As to the arguments about what the statistics are, you know what? It doesn’t matter if it’s 80%, that ALL marriages end in divorce. It only matters where YOURS is headed. Otherwise, you’ll just pysch yourself out with numbers. Big weddings, small weddings, do it the way you truly want, and make it a happy DAY, but stay in touch with one another past the ‘I do’s’.
[soapbox mode off]
Hi, kellibelli!
I’m a little confused.(a common state for me)
Did you mean a common law divorce(is there such a thing?) or a common law marriage? Does a common law marriage require a divorce?
I think there are too many expectations around weddings. A lot of silly traditions that people take for granted as “must-do’s”. Mrs. Phobos and I had a simple wedding…we kept the aspects we liked and ignored those we didn’t. There were a couple things that creeped in that I didn’t want, but there’s some compromise in everything (trying to keep the family’s expectations out of it is the worst/toughest part). Overall, it was a great wedding and even some of the traditions that I hate seeing when I go to other’s weddings were kind of fun when it’s your own wedding.
So be happy for someone else on their wedding day and take notes as to what you like & don’t like for when it’s your own wedding day. All you really need is the license, the rest of the celebration is your own doing, so if you don’t like it, it’s your own fault.
I’ve been to some really gorgeous, beautiful weddings. They weren’t beautiful because of the $$ poured into them, they were beautiful because of the obvious love between the couple and they turned into great parties.
The idea of being married scares me because I know I’m just not ready. But the idea of getting married is absolutely terrifying.
I (not really all that Catholic) know my (more Catholic than iampunha) family, and I know that EVERYTHING will turn into an issue - I can’t imagine putting all the energy, money, and stress into it. I can see myself agreeing to marry someone, planning the wedding, enduring the fighting with my mother over stuff (church vs. non-church, flowers, invitations, guests, seating…ugh) and working myself into a nice panic attack - I’d be wondering if I really wanted to be with the person or was I just getting married because the wedding had taken on a momentum of its own. I’m afraid it would stop being about my relationship with my hypothetical lover, and become this whole pageant about other people. I’m afraid I would feel powerless and angry and really start taking it out on people.
I saw a recent Sex and the City Episode where one of them gets married, and right before it she starts questioning whether the guy has a high enough sex drive, and the line was “She was 34, single, and wearing a $14,000 wedding dress. She was GETTING married.” I didn’t think it was funny, I thought it was terrible! For me it would be more like “She was 34, single, and wearing a $14,000 wedding dress. She turned and fled the church, hopped a plane, and no one’s seen her since!”
Fortunately I’ll probably end up with someone with similar unconventional needs and fears, so it should be okay.
First off, a little background. Eric, in addition to being the cousin I feel the closest too (both age and general outlook-wise), is a really, really good buddy. Some of the fondest memories of my childhood were with him. Even after he left for the Big Island…named Hawaii, just to keep us really confused…I always had a certain fondness for him. He’s always been bright, cheerful, eager to please, and impeccably good-mannered.
He’s a truly admirable human being and I think the world of him.
We left for his wedding on December 29. Here’s what went through my mind that trip:
Night before wedding: Good lord, we’ve been on the road for almost the WHOLE FREAKING DAY! Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we ever going to get there? All right, we’re here!..Oh no, don’t tell me we don’t have our keys! Argh! It’s 9:30 and we haven’t even had dinner yet! Goddammit, this family can’t do anything right!
Wedding ceremony, first two thirds or so: Good lord. All right, they love each other, they’re good Christians, we get the freaking picture already! Some of us don’t appreciate endless Bible-thumping, you know!
Rest of wedding ceremony: A MASS?? You have a mass every freaking week, why do you need one NOW?? Oh great, another goddam speech! Look, we know you’re thrilled about your daughter, okay? Would it KILL you to speed it up? Geez, is this ceremony ever going to end?
Brief shopping trip after ceremony: Cripes, this town is dead. There’s nothing here! I can’t even find the bowling alley…must have closed down already. Probably because who the heck would come here to bowl? I can’t believe how dead this town is…
Wedding reception, first two hours: Oh god, please don’t tell me he invited every single religious group he belongs to…yep, there they are. Man, there’s like a hundred people! Which means, of course, that we’re going to get bombarded with tiresome bible verses and endless freaking affirmations for the WHOLE FREAKING NIGHT. Yep, here they come! This would be a good time to get more food, except that there are about 500 people in line. Oh well, I didn’t really need all those brain cells anyway!..you know, mother, it’s hard enough getting through this without you being a constant pain in the butt. I must be adopted…
Wedding reception, final 90,000 hours: MAKE IT STOP! PLEASE, MAKE IT STOP! I’M DYING HERE!! End it! End it! End it end it end it end it end it end it end it…
…anyway, Angkins, just wanted you to know that your feelings are not at all unusual. Had Eric refused to invite me on account of being a filthy infidel, I actually would have been a lot happier.
I think it can be done, it’s just a lot more difficult than most people realize. Most people don’t think about these issues and how they will be resolved before they get married. That’s too bad.
As the product of a single parent home myself, I made a silent oath to myself some time ago that I would NEVER allow myself to get married if I had any misgivings about it whatsoever. I would rather remain single and childless my entire life than contribute one more failed marriage or lonely, insecure child to the world. And I absolutely will not marry a woman unless she shares my view on this subject. I would require an unbelievable amount of evidence of her commitment and willingness to work through problems before I would marry her.
I feel blessed to have both figured out the above, and to have the wilingness to wait until the time is right. I’m not going to settle down until I am ready to settle down.
As to weddings themselves, I agree with the posters who said big weddings are all about pretensious consumerism. I blame that on the pretensious consumerist society we live in inside the U.S. The ceremony itself won’t matter to me, but I won’t scrimp on the party afterwards. I’ve been to a lot of cousins’ weddings where everybody got drunk and had a blast at the reception, and I want my wedding to be that way.
I think there’s a contradiction here – you either “take two completely different people and blend them into one,” or “retain one’s individuality.”
In any event, though I wouldn’t try to pass myself off as an authority of any sort, I do think it’s possible to have a happy marriage. But that is strongly dependent on having realistic expectations of what a “happy marriage” is. And my definition of a “happy marriage” is where two people stay together because they like each other – there are arguments, and disagreements, and conflicts, but when the dust settles, it’s still “I like this person, even if he/she is a jerk at times.” 
Anyone who expects heart-swooning eros for the length of the marriage is having serious expectation problems.
As for the idea of “blending two people into one,” I think that does work – but the problem is that most people don’t carry it through as far as the idea requires. I’ve seen a lot of married people pay lip service to the “blending” idea, but aren’t willing to compromise for their partner, or insist on retaining all of their old habits/mannerisms, or feel a need to always be the dominant half. There has to be give and take, compromises and negotiations, on behalf of both persons involved. Otherwise it’s a sham that’s begging for disaster.
All IMO, anyway. I’ll get off the soap box now.
It is possible to compromise between the whole wedding circus and schlepping it down to City Hall. Whatever happened to the cake and punch receptions in the church hall? You can still have dresses, suits or tuxes, an attendant or two, flowers, nice pictures, and not break the bank or drive yourselves crazy. All of the solos and scripture readings are optional, as is much of the pomp and circumstance. You definitely don’t have to have a sit down dinner reception and a band! If the bride and groom can keep their moms out of the planning (which is hard but not totally impossible), it is possible have the wedding they want.
As for marriage, it’s a wonderful thing if done properly. Consider it a work in progress, don’t be afraid to admit it and seek counseling when you hit a rough patch, and most importantly, marry the right person. The mistake many folks make is that they focus so much on the wedding that they loose sight of the marriage they’re creating. Anyone who cries over balloon colors or obsesses over formal wear isn’t entering the marriage with the right mindset, and I don’t give them much chance of success.
We share our anniversary with a friend and her husband who are entering their 52nd year of marriage. They’re both in their 70’s and are just as head over heels as ever. Despite racial, religious and ethnic differences, they found a way to make it work. Hearing her talk about their necking fests is a hoot! I hope my husband and I are like that when we are that far along in our marriage.
I would imagine that the degree of elation for the couple getting married is related to how well you know them… were these close friends, or simple acquaintances?