Pitting wedding ceremonies

The BBQ Pit
1

Not because the bride at the wedding I just went to had sent out a stern e-mail advising her guests that the wedding would start one 1 p.m. promptly, and then got an hour delayed in the beauty parlor so my bald spot got painfully scorched in the bright sunshine–that has nothing to do with this. Absolutely nothing.

And it’s also irrelvant that the freaking Ethical Culture minister included adages from every culture on earth, except the Maoris and the Hopi indians, in her dissertation on marriage, while my bladder was near to bursting and the East river was flowing behind her like the world’s biggest running faucet.

No, no, what I’m pitting is the ceremony itself, and the idea of ceremonies that do not state explicitly what the dangers (and the chances) of divorce and unhappy marriages will be.

I got home from the wedding and shortly thereafter I read this thread http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261104 about Rush Limbaugh and his divorces, which has turned into a discussion of family values and such. Without going into that too deeply, it seems to me that it’s awfully hypocritical of our society to tell people, as we marry them, that there will be hardships ahead but you must struggle mightily yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah, while not actively counseling these couples (both privately beforehand and in the ceremony itself) of the heartbreaking consequences of the act of getting married: I.e. having kids grow up without one of them present (a fairly likely outcome), of kids growing up in a home filled with discord of two people who don’t, after a few years, like each other very much anymore, of couples growing apart without overt hostility as people age in different ways and directions–in short of the great probability that any couple will need a great deal of luck to make this thing work out, whatever their good intentions, and most ain’t gonna make it.

I’m standing there with my girlfriend during the ceremony, and I know we were both thinking “Bullshit” to at least half of the minister’s homilies (we’re both long since divorced, naturally) and I suspect that others in the audience were feeling the same. But younger couples, often with very young kids, were squeezing each other’s hands throughout the neverending ceremony, which you could read hopefully but I read sadly, knowing that many of them are going to be divorced, and some of them bitterly, in the next few years.

Out culture is still packaging weddings and marriages as overwhelmingly positive institutions, while the truth–as conceived by both the Left and the Right–is entirely otherwise. I realize that NOT getting married is no answer to the problem of children born outside of marriage, which would be the likely outcome of discouraging marriage, but this still seems a blatant act of hypocrisy to me.

2

While on the one hand I see where you’re coming from in this, I disagree that the ceremony is the proper place to discuss the possibility of failure in the marriage.

I also wouldn’t have wanted to undergo councelling before my marriage (one of the reasons I chose to be married by a Baptist minister rather than a Catholic priest). We’ve been married for over 10 years, first marriages for both of us, and nothing anyone said on that one day would’ve made any difference and would simply have annoyed us both.

3 

Priest: Dearly beloved, we are gathered hear on this glorious day to witness the joyous union of John Smith and Mary Jane.

Priest: John, do you take Mary to be your lawfully wedded wife, in sickness and health, for richer and poorer, and with the full knowledge that the vast majority of marriages end in hurtful, bitter divorces that leave a swath of psychological damage in their wake?  Do you seek to join Mary in a union that will likely end in a profound explosion of emotional pain that will culiminate in a lifetime of alimony and child support that will leave you nearly destitute, and reduce your mid-life crisis to a gold-plated chain and a 10-year old Corvette that needs body work?

John: Um, well, I do, I guess...

Priest: Mary, do you take John to be your lawfully wedded husband? To join him in matrimony until death, financial inconvenience, a 23-year old slut who works in his office, or an inadvertently discovered cache of hentai porn on the family PC do you part?  Do you promise to tell your children that the divorce "isn't their fault," even though the burdens of fatherhood are something that, ultimately, is likely to drive John from you?  Will you live as one with John, reserving the right to sick your divorce lawyer on him for alimony and child support when you decide that you need to "find yourself" at roughly the time your children enter high school?

Priest: Mary?  Where are you going, Mary?  

John: Fuck this, the only thing I'm ever gonna permanently pledge to live with is a tub of crisco and a Cinemax subscription.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ wavy lines ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No, I just don't see it happening.
4

Well, would you also advocate that the hostess at baby showers get up an make a speech? Or maybe this should happen at the bris or baptism? Where someone gets up and points out that this kid will probably throw tantrums in grocery stores throughout the toddler years. In adolescence, there is a good chance he will start to smoke, have sex too young, and/or experiment with drugs. At some point he will start thinking adults are idiots, and mom and dad will have the heart ripped out of them when he pushes them away…

Ceremonies are not less meaningful if they emphasize the positive parts about the journey that’s being undertaken.

As a side note, many couples do go through pre-marital counseling (some churches/ministers require it before performing a marriage) and I’d imagine these things are brought up. Even if not, couples read the papers, hear the news. It’s not like a big secret we’re all keeping from engaged people, that some marriages fail.

5

So, no open bar?

6

While societal changes have put more pressure upon the participants and institution of marriage than ever before, I’d disagree that the ceremony is the place to address our concerns. Certainly conseling should be offered and encouraged for any couple considering making the committment. We went through it even though we were so in love and doubted we needed it. There are more pressures and influences geared toward tearing couples apart nowadays than ever before. They need to make sure they’re engaging in this union for all the right reasons but some simple admonition during the ceremeony is hardly adequate to prepare them for that or to give them the proper venue for reassessment.

7

Yeah, I’m with everyone else. You want to emphasize the positive at a wedding.

My first marriage broke up because of infidelity (his, not mine), and at every wedding I went to afterwards, I sat there, internally rolling my eyes, muttering, “Yeah, right, I give it six months.” I was just in a very bad place, mentally.
I got over it, though, and have since remarried, and am very happy. I wouldn’t have wanted an impromptu couseling session at the ceremony. That would be out of place.
I’m more appalled at this little gem:

This bride’s got some BIG balls, sending out emails, telling her guests to get there on time. :rolleyes:

8

Dude, I’m getting married in October. My fiance and I have definately discussed the possibility of divorc… Hell, I’m the biological product of an extremely dysfunctional marriage; I know what the risks are, both in terms of the possibility of divorce and the possibility of unhappiness. My dad screams at my mom. My mom feels like crap, but can’t ever muster the cujones to stand up for herself. I moved out in part because I couldn’t stand being NEAR that relationship; I can hardly imaging being part of it. I’m well aware of the horror that can develop in a marriage; so is my fiance. That being said, we’re not going to talk about divorce during the ever-effing-loving ceremony.

We’re not going into marriage thinking that we’re not going to make it; we’re going into marriage believing that we’re going to be together for the rest of our lives, and that we’re going to be happy doing it. And while we are going to be responsible by talking about this, we do not feel obligated to discuss this possibility during the ceremony that is supposed to affirm a life-long committment.

It doesn’t seem like you think that that’s possible; that’s your perception. If you don’t ever want to be in a life-long committment or a marriage, then that’s your choice, and I truly hope that it results in a wonderful, fulfilled and happy life. But how dare you criticize me for deciding to make a different choice. I am not going to give up just because there’s the possibility of things turning out badly. I have more courage than that.

(Now, the lateness and the long-ass ceremony; that is an entirely different matter. How rude!).

9

Metacom- absolutely brilliant!

10

Yeah, because adding some downer verbiage to the ceremony is going to dissuade someone, or prepare them for what’s ahead. :rolleyes:

Talking about divorce during the ceremony itself is, well, tacky if nothing else. It’s like standing there during someone’s job interview telling them how many people interview for jobs and don’t get them. It’s essentially telling someone that you know they’re going to fail at this undertaking, and I know they’re going to fail, so why don’t they just face the facts and not even try? And that’s a truly shitty thing to do to someone.

11

What she said. I’m getting married in September, and the idea of not making it is one we don’t want to have to face, but we have discussed the possibility. However, our goal is to have a long, happy marriage and we’ll do whatever is necessary to do that. But I’m certainly not having my officiant talk about that in our ceremony, for Christ’s sake. (“Avabeth and Mr. Avabeth have entered into this marriage with their whole heart, but I feel it necessary to remind them that they might get divorced.” WTF?)

However, the one thing that frustrates me is when people say that they don’t believe in divorce and they will never get divorced except in the case of abuse and cheating (oh, and their spouse would NEVER do either one!). No one knows what’s going to happen in the future. Should my fiance and I grow apart, the last thing either of us ever wants is for the other to be miserable. I wouldn’t want to keep him in a marriage when I know he’s unhappy, and vice-versa (we had this discussion the other night). Divorce will NOT be an easy way out, but a last resort. I think it’s perfectly fine to be optimistic and excited about a marriage, but unhealthy to close your eyes to the possibilities that might happen because…well, life happens. And none of us can guess how we’ll feel five or ten years from now; much less in thirty years.

However, the bride was a rude bitch for the email and for the tardiness.

Ava

12

The state of Tennessee, in one of the few instances I can recall of government getting something right, will take $60 off of the marriage license fee if the couple goes to something like four hours of premarital counseling together.

As to the OP, um, yeah, you’re wrong. Including warning in the marriage ceremony would be as effective as the warnings on cigarette packs; by the time you read it, you’re already hooked.

(And BTW, I’m getting married in August.)

13

As I understand it, divorce is indeed one of the two ways marriage can end.

However, discussing the possibility of divorce at the wedding would be rather like entertaining the possibility of corruption, waste, and reneging on one’s every promise during the Throne Speech (or inauguration ceremony). Or spending part of a commencement address discussing why the graduands will be spending the next several years unemployed.

14

Or to tell new parents that their kid might die young.

In preview, I meant to quote matt_mcl, since this was supposed to be an addition to his comments.

15

Having spent nine years in the company of my husband and having been married now for nearly six years (June 23), I think I can safely pinpoint what has kept us together. It’s something I wish in retrospect had been said more explicitely in our vows. That is that we are a team. When things have gotten rough (and they most certainly have), we’ve rode it out as a team. If something great happens to one of us, we share the joy. If something rotten happens, we suffer together. But there is nothing in this world that is going to tear us apart. That, IMO, is the only attitude to have to survive, because marriage is not easy. You gotta want it. If you don’t take commitment seriously, it’s not going to last.

Of course, there are other things that make marriage easier such as sharing a sense of humor and remaining loving (even when the drudgery of life gives your sex life a beating), etc. But I don’t think I needed to hear (and didn’t) at our wedding that the potential to fail was there. In our case, we were already aware of this. But we were looking at our pasts as only an example of what our future together was not going to be. Hopefully, before people take the plunge, they’ve taken the opportunity to learn how to get the best out of their marriage, as we did.

I agree with everyone else that the ceremony is for looking at bright future not the possibility of failure. Learn ahead of time and NEVER take the commitment lightly. If you’ve already jumped into marriage early than let every difficult moment be an opportunity to strengthen the tie that binds.

16

Two points:

  1. There are groups and institutions that attempt to warn the engaged couple that life will not be all beer and skittles and that any serious commitment will encounter problems. However, as DeadlyAccurate has noted, people will go out of their way to avoid such serious considerations when brought up by third parties.

  2. PLEASE, people, study the figures and then learn something about statistics. It is not true that some “vast majority” of people end up divorced. It is not even true that the vast majority of marriages end in divorce. (There was a relatively brief period from the late 1970s to the early 1990s when slightly more than half of all marriages ended in divorce. However, that figure has again fallen below the 50% mark. And even when the number of failed marriages was higher than 50%, the number of people whose marriages failed was well below 50%. (Heck, Liz Taylor and Mickey Rooney tilt the national scales all by themselves. If 50% of all marriages end in failure and some significant percentage of divorced people marry multiple times, then more than 50% of the people who marry must not be getting divorced in order to offset the multiply married.)

I do agree that there should be more attention paid to the problems inherent in attempting to share one’s life with another (crochety, annoying, stubborn, ill-tempered) human being for the rest of one’s life. However, I doubt that raising the issue at the wedding ceremony will have much effect.

17

I guess it would be a downer to include a skull-and-crossbones type warning on the wedding ceremony, after all. (But Metacom’s wording was an excellent try–thanks.)

So let me try this–is there ANY disasterous marriage/divorce statistic that might make you happy, peppy, optimistic young marrieds reconsider your position? It still seems kind of dopey for society to be pushing marriage as Everyone’s Destiny (And Yay! For You) when the divorce is as high as it is (even if it’s less than 50%, Tom), and the “successful” 50% include some pretty horrific realtionships in it.

If I could demonstrate to you, say, that 90% of marriage end horribly, would you still be calling me a downer and saying “Yay! for me”? How about 95%?

Or would you insist on your unfettered right to get married with nary a barrier no matter how badly marraiges end?

Just wondering.

18

So get up and go to the restroom! Presumably you’re past the age where you need your mommy or daddy to help you go to the potty?

I don’t think you would have missed the ministers homily – it really doesn’t sound like you were getting much out of it anyway.

19

I don’t really understand your point. Several of the people in this thread that have responded to you are recently married, about to get married, or have been happily married for some time, but not everyone! Or are you just asking the ones that are about to tie the knot? Most people getting married don’t truthfully go into it without a second thought, you do know that, right? No one is forcing avabeth to get married. No one forced Cinnamon Girl to get married, AFAIK. They’ve CHOSEN this route at this time in their lives, as did you at one point.

I may be mistaken, but it sounds as if you are bitter about the way that your marriage turned out, and at this point in your life you think marriage is a ridiculous concept touted by society as the only acceptable way to live out one’s life. Your last question almost seems to ask if we think that people have a right to get married…and that you don’t feel they do, at least without some sort of prerequisite. Not all marriages end in divorce, as matt stated. I agree that people should be encouraged to get counselling before they get married. I also believe that each person should be allowed a choice in that matter, in as much as they are allowed to decide whether or not they do choose to walk down the aisle and say “I do”.
~J

20

So would you rather we all go into a marriage with the attitude of “Well, this is over in five years no matter what we do, but fuck it! I get to wear a pretty dress, and we get lots of presents! Let’s do it anyway!”?

And what does it matter to you anyway? If we want to go into the marriage happy and optimistic, why does it chafe your ass? Don’t attend the ceremony, don’t buy a gift, don’t even congratulate the bride and groom. But your little downer of an idea makes no sense. Why do you care?

Ava