Okay married people... Explain.

In My Humble Opinion
1

This thread is inspired by an entry (and it’s comments) in my Live Journal (“My thoughts on marriage”). I want more opinions.

Basically, I don’t “get” marriage. I don’t understand it. In my journal, Quix says that it’s impossible to explain it to someone who’s never been there. I’m asking you to try.

For those of you not interested in reading my LJ…

I don’t understand why anyone would get married. You can be together forever without the piece of paper that says so and a couple of rings. No one needs to change their name to prove to the world that you’re in love. And, with the divorce rate being as high as it is (no specific numbers, no cite), you could save each other a lot of time (and money) by just not getting married.

So what’s the big deal?

2

Well, I have been there. Twice.

Both times I was sure it was right.

Both times I was wrong. FTR, yes I did work at them but there’s only so much one person can do. The first divorce was friendly, the second was a hell that dragged out for almost three years before I could get him to sign the damn papers and stop stalling.

I got married because my parents were pressuring me to both times. Good Southern Baptist and Church of Christ members that they are.

Now I am completely in agreement with you about it and seeing as I’m damn near forty, my parents can just bitch. I am not going through that again and I’m too cynical to believe that the third time would be the charm.

I would like to believe in forever for myself but I can’t have much faith beyond the here and now and right now that’s not even looking especially appealing.

3

I think marriage is a wonderful thing, which is remarkable, considering what my parent’s divorce did to me (long story).

It’s the commitment that matters to me. I’m not saying that you have to be married to have commitment, but think about it: What kind of permanent arrangement can you have when the knowledge that you can leave at anytime is looming over your head?

I would rather have a ceremonial commitment, where you are forced to say the words and then are forced to try to live up to those words. If you are unwilling to take that step, then your level of commitment is sorely lacking.

Oh, by the way…Arden, will you marry me? :wink:

4

Well, for me, and this is only me talking; I don’t mean to be talking for all other married people…

Marriage for me takes the level of commitment that extra step further. We’ve declared legally, spiritually, publically that we want to be in here for the long haul.

For me, this accomplishes several things. First of all, it affords us all the support that society gives to married people. We are taken seriously; people see our union as sacrosanct; our family and friends and coworkers understand (and expect) that our priorities/loyalties lie with each other before them. Is that critical to our survival as a couple? No. But it adds to the fabric of it, and I think it helps smooth some things that might be more difficult.

Second, it gives each of us the assurance that we are both equally committed. I am not always great with words. Neither is my husband. I don’t think we can express equally, evenly, or consistently how much we’re committed to each other. But by entering into this marriage, we’ve said to each other that yes, we’re as committed as you can get. Even if the poetry isn’t rolling off our tongues all the time.

Third, it serves as a point-in-time reminder, a marker you might say, for the future. I know there might be some difficult times ahead. I’m one hell of a revisionist in when it’s convenient. I can tell myself I didn’t really feel a certain way, I didn’t really want that job, I didn’t really love that boyfriend all that much, etc etc etc. It’s real convenient to rewrite history. But my wedding day, or really our engagement day when you come down to it, reminds me that there was a point in time when both of us felt 100% that what we had was worth it and was worth working on no matter what comes in the future. I can’t revise that or rewrite that or ignore that. I’d like to think that this will serve as an extra incentive to work on it, instead of caving, if things get difficult.

I hope these don’t sound lame. I mean, I’m not gonna lay on you all this crap about how much more “in love” we are than people who don’t choose to get married–because I don’t believe that. So these are the more practical reasons.

5

This may come across as somewhat sappy, but what the hell. I like being married. Say what you will about independence and all that, my take is that human beings are interdependent.

No, you don’t have to have the little piece of paper and the ring and the legal nightmare of changing your name (or the societal nightmare of explaining why you won’t) to have a successful union. But, we live in a time and space where marriage is a custom and a tradition, where married folk are regarded as more stable and reliable than unmarried, where married people legally benefit from one another. Whether that is right or wrong, it’s there. In the same spice/time continuum, many people still look at children born out of wedlock (and the parents who bear them) as objects of pity or scorn. So maybe marriage is just a more customary, and more convenient way to do what you were going to do anyway, I dunno.

But there really are elements of trust, faith, constancy, (you know, all that mushy stuff) involved. It’s easy to dismiss a piece of paper as the sum of it parts, but when you look at it as concrete evidence of a promise, it has a little more significance.

Plus, it’s not easy to get out of, which may (or may not, what the hell do I know) make people work harder to keep it together rather than just walk away from it. When you’re in it for the long haul, you make your mind up not to entertain an option like divorce. Other people are not divorcing your marriage, you see, so statistics don’t matter. Only you and your partner can decide whether or not to become a statistic. In my own case, my husband and I decided that divorce would not be an option. Likewise, infidelity. If one BECAME an option, so did the other. So we committed NOT to get divorced. Which results in many arguments along the lines of, “Listen, since we don’t believe in divorce, could you put the friggin’ toothpaste cap back on so I don’t have to KILL you?” In all seriousness, though, the fact that we have dismissed this option from the get-go forces us to examine other solutions to our problems.

You know, one of these days I am going to put the above into some semblence of order and publish it… But for now, does this help or hinder you?

6

The divorce stats is something of a straw argument that does not say much about marriage. At least the one that says “Half of all marriages end in divorce.” Some people go through multiple divorces, a lot end during the first year (sorry, no cites). And I speak as one who is batting .500 (1 for 2).

Mrriage is one of the few times I’ve made a serious commitment, and I’m a man who’s committed to nothing, so for me to go this far is a way of saying how much I believe in the institution. It’s a public declaration of what I believe (which is even more important to me because we now have children). I believe in her and us, and she is my best friend.

Or to put it another way, I wouldn’t feel the same about us without it. Call it conditioning if you will, but that’s the way it is.

7
  1. How “involved” in a relationship can you actually be when the thought of leaving always enters your mind?
  2. If the thought of leaving is present, should that couple really be considering marriage?

Oh, so marriage is… what? Like rape? The whole “forced” thing really bothers me. Are you sure that’s how you wanted to word that?

**
That is incredibly untrue. Exhibit A: My bro and his gf, as described in my LJ, linked above.

Of all the problems I have with marriage, this is probably the biggest one.

Eh, not at all. It gives some insight and, like you said, those are the practical reasons.

Another question for the married people:

Had you not married your husband/wife, do you think the two of you would have lasted so long? Why or why not?

8

For me, getting married was the natural progression - the logical “next step” if you will - to our relationship. We were already living together at the time, so if you really want to analyze it, getting married didn’t really change our “status” per se.

It’s kind of hard to explain, but it just felt right…it was the logical thing for both of us to do. I guess my thought is that you can say “I love you” all you want, but marriage cements it. Aside from the legal aspect of it, it’s the public declaration that you make as a couple of your commitment to each other. Although, I can understand that while it was right for us, it might not be for some other folks…

9

Myself and my (as yet, imaginery) boyfriend could just as easily say, “Hey, breaking up is not an option. Let’s think of some other solution.” The only difference is, should we discover that nothing will help and breaking up is inevitable, we aren’t bound by any legal contract.

**
The jury’s still out.

I’m not bashing marriage or married people. I’m just trying to understand the point of it all.

10

Wait–not to be argumentative, but why is this a problem? I don’t think I’m reading you correctly. Do you mean you resent that society doesn’t look at non-married couples the same way? Or do you really think it’s a bad thing that society takes marriage seriously and works to preserve the union through its attitudes and expectations? That’s why I meant by support–not any sort of “privilege” like insurance coverage. I meant that nearly everyone from strangers to closest family buys into “the marriage thing” and understands how committed we are, without convincing, explanation, or requests to respect the borders of our relationship.

11

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Silver Fire *
**

**

Yep. You can’t get married without saying the words, simple as that. And after saying the vows, you have no recourse but to try to make things work, because there’s no easy way out. And that’s what marriage is good for, in my opinion. It makes you examine your relationship and makes you determine how serious you are.

I’m glad your brother can have a good relationship without marriage. I’m sure I could, too. But again, there’s always the easy out for the less committed if you’re not married.

I would have a real hard time living with that knowledge, that I could get ditched on a moment’s notice.

12

Cranky: I think it’s stupid that society doesn’t look at non-married couples the same way. Couples can be in a lifelong legitimate relationship without lengthy ceremonies and legalities entering into the picture. And the whole, “…many people still look at children born out of wedlock (and the parents who bear them) as objects of pity or scorn” (LifeOnWry) thing pisses me off, too.

So my future neice/nephew (due date: January 22, 2002) is going to be the object of pity because his parents aren’t married? Why? They love each other, their relationship is as stable as my own parents’ (who are married and have been for 20+ years), and they will love this child to no end. Yet this is looked down upon because they won’t conform to societal expectations, “traditions” and “conveniences”. Why?

13

Not on your life, buddy boy.

I will, however, consider a tawdry affair.

14

This is how I’m reading the above - A marriage isn’t really a showing of committment through actual committment, but through a fear of divorce. Basically, people who get married are more likely to stay together longer because they don’t want to go through all the hassle that divorce brings.

Right? :confused:

15

Of all the posts so far, I haven’t read anyone speak about children

It seems to me that a primary function of marriage is to create a stable permanent male/female relationship that children can be brought up into. I know these days many feel that marriage and the creation/raising of children are only semi-related but I disagree. Children, I feel, need mothers and fathers living together, creating a constant, stable environment.

I realize many parents fall short of this goal (my parents sure did), but this doesn’t mean that the institution is meaningless. If two people who have no intention of having children don’t feel that marriage is important to them, so be it. However, I feel my role as father is absolutely affected by my role as husband, and the two are impossible to seperate. Every child is affected for their entire life by the relationship that their mother and father had.

So, there you have it, my $00.02.

16

You’d rather marry this same woman, who will want to leave you just as much whether she’s bound by a contract or not?

(Not saying that she’d WANT to leave you, but the only thing that marriage is going to change is her ability to get away quickly and easily, not her level of love for you. Does that even make sense?)

17

According to several sociological studies we discussed in class, that’s a pretty common reason right there.

As is not wanting a drop in lifestyle like having to give up the big house, etc…

As a mother of two, and a child of divorce, I disagree.

A stable, loving, enviroment is just as easy, if not easier, in a single parent household.

It’s not how many parents are there, it’s how good the one they have is.

18

How 'bout you read the thread again, particularily the part where I talk about the neice/nephew I’m expecting at the end of January (born to unwed parents).

19

My brother and his girlfriend (the unwed parents mentioned in my last post) live together and have lived together for the past 5 years.

My UNWED brother has a wonderful relationship with his girlfriend. So thank you for reassuring me that my neice/nephew will be positively affected by their NON-MARRIED relationship. (Not that a small child would know the difference anyway.)

20

Of course they can be in a legitimate lifelong relationship, but they also have the option not to be–when I first moved in with my now-husband, I was far, far from sure that I wanted to spend my entire life with him. I decided that some months later. At that point in time, I wasn’t in a life long legitimate rrelationship, and i wouldn’t have wanted it to be percieved as such–that would have been boxing me into a role before I had decided that that was what I wanted.
As for the bigger question, I think that ceremonies and clearly defined relationships are important to people in some deep-seated way that we don’t really understand. Why have coming of age ceremonies? A boy can take on a man’s role in the community without all this hoopla and going on about things. Why have funnerals? Everyone knows that John’s dead. When the structure of our life–how we see outrselves, how we see our role in the community–changes, there seems to be an innate desire to publically mark that change, be it the move from a single state to a married one, from a child to an adult, or from living to dead. Each of these changes effects the whole community, and so the whole community (however you define that) likes to get in on the switch. Some people seem to feel this pull for the ceremonial more than others. I have no idea why.

I really think the next step is divorce ceremonies. I think the idea makes so much sense–when you formally end a relationship, you oughta have a big gathering and make hte announcement publically, and perhaps even swap new vows about not being resentful and honoring responsibilities towards children etc., etc.