The what, why and how of meditation

[Knowed_Out]

You keep saying it’s a well-accepted idea, but I haven’t found any evidence of that on my own. Shamanism and Animism? I haven’t seen any of that either, other than a respect for all living things and a prohibition against taking life of any kind, which is a common belief of all Buddhists. Are you sure you’re not confusing Tibetan Buddhism with something else?

[MrDibble]

@Knowed_Out

You keep saying it’s a well-accepted idea, but I haven’t found any evidence of that on my own. Shamanism and Animism? I haven’t seen any of that either, other than a respect for all living things and a prohibition against taking life of any kind, which is a common belief of all Buddhists. Are you sure you’re not confusing Tibetan Buddhism with something else?

The main shamanistic religion in Tibet is a distinct entity called Bön & the older animist/polytheistic religion is called Mi-chos, but there’s a lot of overlap and cross-fertilization between TB and Bön & Mi-chos. I was always taught there was a high level of idiosyncratic local content in TB, that got largely sanitized in its export to the West, but is significant in daily practice not just for laypeople but also monastics. This papergives a bit of an overview, I can’t speak to its thoroughness but it does agree with what I’ve read before .

[CarnalK]

http://library.brown.edu/cds/BuddhistTempleArt/buddhism4.html:

But with what did Buddhism struggle during that period between the “first” and “second” diffusions? And what were the influences that led Tibetan Buddhism to diverge so markedly from Indian Buddhism that later observers attached to it a new name – Lamaism – as to a separate, distinct cult?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tibet/understand/bon.html:

When Buddhism entered Tibet, it did not attempt to suppress belief in the indigenous forces. Rather, it incorporated them into its worldview, making them protectors of the dharma who were converted by tantric adepts like Padmasambhava, and who now watch over Buddhism and fight against its enemies. An example is Tangla, a god associated with the Tangla mountains, who was convinced to become a Buddhist by Padmasambhava and now is thought to guard his area against forces inimical to the dharma. The most powerful deities are often considered to be manifestations of buddhas, bodhisattvas, Oikinis, etc., but the mundane forces are thought to be merely worldly powers, who have demonic natures that have been suppressed by Buddhism. Although their conversion has ameliorated the worst of their fierceness, they are still demons who must be kept in check by shamanistic rituals and the efforts of Buddhist adepts. Nor should it be thought that Buddhist practitioners are free from the influences of the folk religion. These beliefs and practices are prevalent in all levels of Tibetan society, and it is common to see learned scholar-lamas, masters of empirically-based dialectics and thoroughly practical in daily affairs, refuse to travel at certain times in order to avoid dangerous spirits or decide their travel schedules after first performingl divination to determine the most auspicious time.

I can’t cut’n’paste this journal review:
Review: Tibetan Buddhism as Shamanism?
You’re right though, the way of Buddhism is generally to incorporate the local beliefs but many found it striking in Tibet. Especially because of the interplay with Buddhism and Bon. If you think that’s no different than any other place Buddhism has set up shop then fair enough but I didn’t just make this up.

[swampspruce]

@WordMan

If you meet the Zombie Buddha in the middle of the road, should you eat his brains?

No, for he is already a zombie and his brain meat is not fresh. Also, the sound of one winged doves.

[CarnalK]

Here’s an article describing specific, and rather heretical, departures of Tibetan Buddhist belief from the mainstream:
Following the Dalai Lama down a rabbit hole

[Knowed_Out]

OK, I guess I’ve been exposed to the Western version of Tibetan Buddhism. The links above seem to talk about local Tibetan folklore beliefs that were incorporated 300 years after Buddhism was introduced to the area in the 8th century. The harshness of the environment has a lot do with those beliefs, as Tibetans felt they had to placate gods and spirits to survive. Buddhism incorporated their principles with the Tibetan mindset, much as Christianity incorporated Pagan customs into its own system.

Tibetan Buddhists fled the country in 1959 when the Chinese invaded, and most, including the Dalai Lama, settled in India. Their beliefs went on to spread outside Tibet, and I suppose they took into account their new environments and decided to cut back on the local folklore aspect. The Frontline article talks about the Bonpos, who place precedence on original folklore, and make up about 10 percent of Tibetans, which isn’t indicative of all Tibetan Buddhists.

[CarnalK]

But even if you forgive the animism and shamanism, the Dali Lama’s belief that he is a direct reincarnation of the previous Dali Lama, and the one before him, is a serious departure from Buddhist teachings.

[MrDibble]

@Knowed_Out

Tibetan Buddhists fled the country in 1959 when the Chinese invaded, and most, including the Dalai Lama, settled in India. Their beliefs went on to spread outside Tibet

Note this wasn’t the first time Tibetan Buddhist beliefs spread outwards - they had quite an influence in Central Asia up to Mongolia, back in the days when Tibet rivaled China as a regional power.

, and I suppose they took into account their new environments and decided to cut back on the local folklore aspect. The Frontline article talks about the Bonpos, who place precedence on original folklore, and make up about 10 percent of Tibetans, which isn’t indicative of all Tibetan Buddhists.

Did you read my cite? There’s a lot more to the local beliefs than just Bön, and a lot more than 10% of Tibetans who are as much followers of folk beliefs as they are of Buddhism.