I believe this is the definitive description. Except backwards. Sorta 
Zep made me sort of want to lay on the couch, pleasantly stoned, and wander around inside my head.
The Who made me want to drink hard liquor, go outside, and cause disturbances.
The Who Sell Out. It’s just so fucking clever. Townsend’s really starting to prowl the cage of his mod/R&B roots, Daltrey’s being dragged along kicking and screaming, and the tension in the band, which you can feel, translates into a fantastic bunch of songs: it really foreshadows Tommy. Plus it single-handedly anticipates and destroys prog rock, with a ridiculously fun sloppy pomp rock take on “In The Hall Of The Mountain King”, with Moon on howls, grunts, moans and gibbers.
Oh, sure, that’s kind of what I meant when I said expanding the vocabulary of blues-based rock. It seems to me that no matter what influences they were trying to tie together, whether English folk or middle Eastern melodies, they were always firmly grounded in sticky, dirty blues rock.
Yeah - we’re good.
In terms of the Who having perfect albums - Who’s Next, Tommy, Quadrophenia, Live at Leeds, The Who Sell Out are all in the running. There’s much about Quadrophenia I don’t like, but Townshend comes back to it as a crowning achievement…
but calling Zep I-IV perfect albums and not mentioning Physical Graffiti???
That’s my personal fave…
Well, I don’t think I count, I thought Zep 1 through Physical Graffiti are perfect. It wasn’t until Presence that they had a song that was short of perfect. So, as I said, I don’t count.
By perfect, I mean every song is great. Think “Dark Side of the Moon” or “Wish you were here”. I just don’t have a Who album or CD that measures up to that except the various collections.
Jim
Entwhistle. The best bassist ever. … Excellent bassist
But im thinking either Stanley Clarke or Cfiff Burton deserves that title
I agree. And Pete didn’t steal other people’s songs.
Led Zeppelin is easily the most overrated band in rock.
I don’t remember who said it - maybe it was Entwhistle - but I heard that, where bands like Zep succeeded by the musicians playing with each other, The Who succeeded by the musicians playing against each other.
Alex Lifeson of Rush once said that, for years he considered Jimmy Page to be his biggest influence. But looking back at how his playing had evolved with Rush, he realized that his playing was much more like Townshend: providing texture and atmosphere instead of competing with a busy rhythm section.
Anyway, I’ve never really been a fan of either The Who or Led Zeppelin, but I’ll take a crack:
Since I’m a bassist I’ll start there. I’ll take JPJ over Entwhistle. This is mostly just a matter of preference. Both were brilliant - I just like JPJ’s overall feel better (despite the fact that my favorite bassist, Geddy Lee, has a style more akin to Entwhistle). The caveat is that I’ve heard more LZ songs than Who songs, so I’ve probably missed some Entwhistle lines that might change my opinion.
Moon vs. Bonham: I’ll go with Moon. Again, a matter of preference, rather than a judgment of talent. The first thing that pops into my head is that I simply hate the sound of Bonham’s kit. Although I’m not a drummer, I have a very definite idea of how I like drums to sound. I strongly prefer drums to sound resonant and to have a distinct “tone” to them, but to me Bonham’s drums sound flat and thuddy. My bias probably comes from the fact that I grew up in the era when most rock drummers used massive kits with multiple, precisely-tuned toms ala Keith Moon. But to my ears, even Ringo Starr got a better “tone” out of his 4-piece kit than Bonham did.
Townshend vs. Page: I’ll say Page simply as the default, referring once again to the fact that I’ve heard more LZ than Who, and just haven’t heard many Who songs that feature Townshend doing much more than strumming or hitting power chords.
Daltrey vs. Plant: Daltrey, hands down. As with Bonham’s drums, I can’t stand the sound of Plant’s squealing voice. I also don’t like his constant “Oh oh oh oooooooooooonnnnnneeeeeooo uh uh uh …”. I like singers who shut the hell up and get out of the way during the instrumental parts of songs. I like Daltrey’s versatility - the way he doesn’t sound exactly the same on every song - he changed his delivery to suit the mood of the song (though I suspect that, in some cases, it’s Townshend singing lead without me realizing it). And, like my favorite metal singers, Daltrey’s screams sound masculine, whereas Plant’s sound too feminine to my ears.
My brother is a musician and music geek, and he gave me this (very comprehensive, and thoughtful) reply:
Not a thing there with which I disagree.
I know I’ve read that before, probably on the Dope, and perhaps even by you, but reading that simple statement had actually caused me to completely reassess the Who, and that reassessment gave me a much more favorable impression than I’ve had most my life (I was never much of a Who fan.) Also, it’s caused me to reassess Keith Moon, whom I thought was one of the most overrated drummers of all time (of course, people say that about my boy Bonham), and a drummer I wouldn’t put anywhere near any best drummers lists of mine. Now, though, I concede that he would certainly make my top ten.
And that’s what makes this a horse race. I respect a lot of your posts on music Subterraneanus, but couldn’t disagree with you more. And that’s cool - beauty, beholder, what have you.
Did Page/Zep rip off artists? Yep - too many to count. Did they take the raw materials they ripped off and combine them into something new, innovative and important in its own way artistically? IMHO, absolutely.
Picasso was a prick personally, who collaborated with Braques enough to co-develop Cubism, then tried to claim it as his alone, alienating Braques and earning derision from other artists - and this happened other times with him as well. He’s a dick but he’s still an artistic genious.
I try to keep my moral judgment out of my music appreciation where possible, but that is a personal choice…
Even Four Stick? I mean, one time I saw a digital jukebox in a bar and paging through the selections saw LZIV and said…yanno, they only have 1 or 2 songs from each album in general on this digital jukebox, but I bet they have all of them from LZIV…OTHER than Four Sticks. (and wouldn’t you know…)
Don’t get me wrong, it’s well written enough that it would probably kick ass if Heart were to cover it, but I just wouldn’t call it a “great” song. It’s what keeps LZIV from being a perfect album.
Well said, I agree. This follows as well for Led Zep as a whole when compared to the Who on the basis of production values. Who album production and engineering is crisp, deep, bright and all of those other audiophile buzzwords. Pete’s guitar and Roger’s vocals have a life and energy that is just stripped out of Led Zep’s poor production values. My brain, when listening to Led Zep, is forced to fill in the fidelity it wishes was there.
However in another universe, where Led Zep had a proper engineer in their studio that could do more than twiddle a balance knob back and forth, Led Zep would have been transendantly beyond any other band…
I love it, great song. I threw it on as I write this post it. I love this song. I really do. It’s simple but great.
Jim (I did say I was a bad example.)
One area where I think the Who has a clear edge is in vocals. Not so much the Daltry-Plant question (although I definitely come down on Daltry’s side there), but on harmonies by the whole group. Everybody in the group could sing, and some of their work (I’m thinking mostly of A Quick One While He’s Away) is driven as much by the vocal parts as by Entwhistle and Moon.
I’m having a hard time thinking of any Zeppelin song that features vocal harmonies on any level.
A couple of other things I’ve thought of (sorry, I don’t ever have complete thoughts :o ).
As far as songs go, I think the Who did a lot more varied and intersting things, but at times veered off into not so appealing territory. Zep was plenty varied and all, but stayed the course a bit more, stylistically. One thing about the Who that can be maddening is that I think their greatest moments are their transitions betwen phrases, the emphases, the song within the song. Keith Moon and John Entwhistle played a big part here. Zep most definitely had better sustained riffage, though.
Also, Black Dog shuffled up on my iPod on the way home from work today, and I thought “Wow, John Paul Jones was like Ginger Rogers, doing everything Fred Astaire did, except backwards and in heels.” He could really lay in there in match up with Page’s anarchic riffing very nicely. Whereas Entwhistle was more of an anarchist himself, always pushing and going over the top. Two different styles, both great.
Battle of Evermore comes to mind quickly.
Kind of still on topic:
What’s your favorite album by each group?
my vote:
Who - Live At Leeds
Zep - LZIII
Apples and oranges.
Pete speaks to me in a way Plant and Page never could. I never felt that I could be a character in a Led Zeppelin song. The opposite is true with The Who. Led Zep is a great, great band, but their music never touched me in the way The Who did.
One category that you didn’t include was stage banter. The Who take that one hands down.
Biggest difference between the two bands: Led Zeppelin had the integrity and good sense to call it quits instantly when an irreplaceable member died.
Can anyone think of another band that broke up at the height of its commercial popularity when they were all still on friendly terms JUST because it seemed like the right thing to do?
How many bands ever walked away from more money than Led Zeppelin did?