The Young Pope on HBO.

Cafe Society
41

Yes, it’s been renewed for a second season: The Young Pope - Wikipedia

What a strange, strange show. I keep thinking I’ll stop, it’s so baffling, contradictory and even sometimes surreally nonsensical, but damned if I don’t keep watching.

Favorite recent bits:

  • The Pope donning robes, gloves, tiara and rings to the tune of “I’m Sexy and I Know It”
  • The stigmata guy’s neon-lit vision of the Pope visiting him in his house
  • The Pope, startled, dropping the baby on the hospital bed
  • The Pope and the Italian Prime Minister’s icily-polite minuet
  • Cardinal Voiello taking the nun’s cellphone and later setting her straight on the African tyrant

The Pope’s coat of arms (visible sometimes on the rug in his office) is reminiscent of Pius XII’s (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Pius_12_coa.svg) and Paul VI’s (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Coat_of_Arms_of_Pope_Paul_VI.svg).

And what’s with the painting (by Rembrandt?) of the hairy man nursing a baby?

42

…And WTF is it with the kangaroo?!

43

Watched the first two episodes and gave up on it.

It’s a nice looking show but profoundly irritating in being so mysterioso from the start.

It never established why I should care about anything enough to stick around.

44

I was wondering about that. Is that a real painting? (Many of the paintings shown in the opening credits are real, as is the Venus of Willendorf, although it’s actually in an Austrian museum.)

45

A Google search led me to an answer; the painting is called La mujer barbuda or Magdalena Ventura or The Bearded Woman, by Jusepe de Ribera. Article from The Guardian about it.

46

Great find - thanks!

47

Well, I watched it all the way through to the end of the season. Parts of it I really liked; parts of it left me cold.

I guess the Pope is a saint under Catholic teachings, for all his flaws, with three miracles now apparently attributable to him: healing the mom of his childhood classmate, removing Esther’s sterility, and smiting Sr. Antonia, the crooked nun in Africa.

Not sure what was up with the fat woman in bed in NYC. An odd tangent.

Nice callback for the woman (his California crush?) juggling for her two kids, just as the Pope had earlier juggled in the Vatican gardens.

The village of the Blessed Juana looked a lot like the Mexican village in Westworld.

I like the Cardinal Gutierrez character a lot - alcoholic, until-now-closeted, deeply conflicted, but strong enough to argue with the Pope and urge a more humane policy upon him.

Loved the scene with the various historic Popes appearing to Pius XIII in a dream, and him being unimpressed by their “banal” advice.

Here’s more on Brodsky, the Nobel laureate mentioned by the Pope for having written, “Beauty at low temperatures is beauty”: Joseph Brodsky - Wikipedia

Why was the Pope in a regular priest’s street clothes to say goodbye to Sr. Mary? I noticed his white robes in Venice lacked all the gold embroidery on the front, too.

I’ve lost count of how many times the Pope has said he doesn’t believe in God, or hasn’t contradicted others who say he’s an atheist. But then nothing is done with this explosive information; we just move on to the next scene. Very puzzling.

And he just seems like a jerk when he tells a mean “joke” to the schoolkids, making some of them cry; backs out of a promised visit to Guatemala for no particular reason; and won’t turn around to bless the eager, hopeful people in the fast-food restaurant.

Cardinal Voiello plotted to oust the Pope, tells him he killed the aspiring priest who jumped off St. Peter’s Basilica, and later tells him his parents repudiated him by leaving him. Yeesh. Why does the Pope even keep him around anymore?

Exiling Archbishop Kurtwell to Alaska would not assuage all those who thought he ought to be prosecuted for his pedophilia and abuse of power in NYC.

I guess we’re meant to think that the Pope’s elderly-hippy parents are in the crowd in Venice, and turn away in disappointment. Nice touch to have various characters earlier shown this season (the American writer, the druglord and his wife, the hooker in the Rome hotel, etc.) listening to his speech. But the speech shouldn’t have made the crowd react the way they did, I thought. I also would’ve expected a huge media contingent, a platoon of photographers, banks of TV cameras, etc., for his first public appearance in which he could be clearly seen by the public.

A very strange show; still thinking it through.

48

I think the crowd reacted as it did because Pope Pius XIII decided to tell a happy hopeful message, as opposed to his angry messages earlier on in his Papacy. I thought it was a beautifully shot show, but very strange and didn’t really go anywhere.

And yes, the Pope definitely would be a Saint… and we now know why Sister Mary was so adamant about that. Of course, I think as the show mentions, saints aren’t perfect.

49

Agreed, but what he said would not, in the real world, lead to rapturous applause at the moment that it did.

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I disagree. I think it would especially after months of people hearing despair from their Pope, to hear he is promoting a hopeful message would be shockingly happy… I’d applaud.

51

I agree that it was the tone of the message that elicited the response from the crowd. The speech itself was bad. Poorly thought out, poorly written, droning and silly. The pope certainly has had better speeches in the show. Was disappointed.

Overall though, I was fascinated by the characters, enjoyed watching them interacting with each other a lot.

The show is definitely different from most other things I watch. What with the whole, no real plot to it. I felt like I was watching a soap opera set in the vatican, except with good acting and writing. Actually, I think soap operas tend to have more plot than this show :wink:

Will tune in for Season 2.

52

Supposedly the show will get a second season so I’m not sure what we’re supposed to make of the ending of this one.

53

I really liked it. Well acted and visually stunning. Compelling characters. I catch myself still thinking about it from time to time.

One of the things that bother me, other than the inexplicable kangaroo, is his abrupt 180 from the severe and ultra-conservative pope through episode 8 to a suddenly more open minded one in episode 9.

The speech was another strange thing. He never went to Guatemala to hear the stories about the young girl, he seemed skeptical about the miracles she was reporter to perform, yet that’s who he chose to speak about in the end. Odd choice.

54

I’ve been trying to place Sebastian Roché, the actor who plays Cardinal Marivaux (the guy who told the Pope about the Blessed Juana and tried to convince him to go to Guatemala). None of his movie credits rang a bell. Then it hit me - awhile back, I saw him play George Washington in the short film they show at the visitor’s center at Mount Vernon.

55

I found too much conflicting directions, which left me like “Huh?”

  • The Pope says, often, that he doesn’t believe in God; but he prays “God, I need to talk to you now” and gets responses. (Does he say the same line for Esther? Don’t remember.)
  • He’s ultra-strict throwback, until he suddenly loosens up – at least on homosexual priests
  • He quotes Old Testament way more than New Testament. How can he quote “eye for an eye” to Voiello?
  • His boyhood friend is punished for having sex with a married woman. This seems very much like an Old Testament judgement. Does the show FAVOR the harsher eye-for-eye approach?
  • He’s seen as a Christ figure (the way he spreads his arms when praying for miracles, etc) but at the same time, he’s shown as a really nasty unpleasant guy (push the button to get rid of boring people, mean joke on the children, etc.)
  • The nonsense about the actor couple playing his parents was just silly. Sister Mary was generally so understanding, how could she think he would fall for such an idiotic ploy?

The acting was fabulous, the characters all believable, the story was compelling but I found the lack of clarity/direction annoying.

56

I’m about to jump out of this thread for fear of being spoiled. But it probably won’t take me long to power through the remaining episodes & return.

Give me excellent art direction, a bit of interesting music & some bravura performances. Plot? I’ll see how it develops.

Architectural Digest has an article on locations for the series since filming is forbidden in the Vatican. Sets built at Cinecittà Studios include a full-size “Sistine Chapel.” But we are also seeing many real buildings & gardens in Rome & elsewhere…

57

Very interesting - thanks! I remember Gangs of New York, including 1860s NYC street scenes, was filmed at Cinecittà too.

58

I stumbled across this Wiki article about one of the Vatican paintings that appears in the opening credits: Delivery of the Keys (Perugino) - Wikipedia. Check out the “Legend” section.

59

Just finished Robert Harris’s novel Conclave. A very interesting, well-researched but occasionally farfetched look at the near-future election of a new Pope, with plenty of Vatican intrigue, secrets and political maneuvering (it also has a whopper of an ending). Any fan of The Young Pope will want to check it out.

60

Bumped.

I’ve seen the first three episodes of the season, now renamed The New Pope (will S3, if there is one, follow the same model and be The [Something else] Pope?). I liked seeing the wheeling and dealing that went into the papal conclave. Not convinced they’d turn to an effete British aristocratic cardinal who wears mascara as the “only” next choice for pontiff, though. I laughed when the PR gal said the cardinal reminded her of the actor John Malkovitch. “He never did anything for me,” said John Malkovitch with a shrug.

Anyone else watching?