I’ve been in the situation, at least for a little while. I didn’t eat and hoped I would die quickly. Unfortunately, I’m still here, and I have to deal with life’s bullshit until I finally die naturally.
It’s not “fuck it, let the poor die” it is survival of the fittest. If you aren’t able to survive in society on your own, regardless of the reason, you shouldn’t be kept alive by others. And, why are humans so afraid of death? It’s something that everyone should expect to do at least once in their life, right? Has anyone ever been able to escape dying? No. They can prolong their lives, but will never escape death. So, what’s the big deal about death?
So, where do you find featherless chickens? Every chicken I have seen has feathers until they are plucked, by humans. And I didn’t say that only chickens do this. It’s called an example. I’ve never seen a water buffalo attempt to stop a lion from killing another member of the heard. Hell, I’ve watched a water buffalo stand by and let its offspring drown in a river. And I’ve never seen a lion attempt to nurse an injured lion back to health. Humans are the only species I know of that will attempt to keep every member alive, regardless of its ability to survive on its own. I see it as a weakness, and going against nature’s first law. When did humans become wiser than nature? Was that some time around the time we started destroying our environment?
I think I avoid a lot of requests from homeless people by wearing my nifty green knit cap. It makes me look a little bit like a dirtbag – certainly not someone who appears to have an abundance of spare change.
To quote from Sesame Street: One of these things is not like the other. If death is no big deal to you, why do you “have” to be alive? Hell, I’d suggest you cap yourself now, but I sense that you have some emotional issues that might be helped with the right therapy.
Hmmm. I suppose you’re going to equate civilization with destruction. There’s another debate altogether. But the fact is, we are not animals. We protect our sickly and our weak because we hold the uniquely human conceits of love and compassion.
We’re not? Bullshit. If we’re not animals, why are we in the same genus as monkeys? Are they not animals either? What about the fact that 95% of our DNA structure is identical to that of a chimpanzee? Does that not indicate that we are animals? Brittanica defines Animal as the following:
"animal
(kingdom Animalia), any of a group of multicellular eukaryotic organisms (i.e., as distinct from bacteria, their deoxyribonucleic acid, or DNA, is contained in a membrane-bound nucleus). They are thought to have evolved independently from the unicellular eukaryotes. Animals differ from members of the two other kingdoms of multicellular eukaryotes, the plants (Plantae) and the fungi (Mycota), in fundamental variations in morphology and physiology. This is largely because animals have developed muscles and hence mobility, a characteristic that has stimulated the further development of tissues and organ systems."
To put this in small words you can understand, if you aren’t a plant or a fungus, you are an animal. So, if humans aren’t animals, as you would like to believe, does that make you a fungus? Or are you a plant?
And, love and compassion are human concepts, but not what set us apart from other species. The opposable thumb is the only difference between humans and non-primates.
Just because I don’t fear death doesn’t mean I don’t like life. I want to live, and help make the human race a better place. If we get rid of the weak links, doesn’t the whole chain get stronger? I just want people to pull their heads out of their asses and understand that death isn’t something to fear. We are all going to die, so why fear it?
No, I wasn’t kidding. I wasn’t telling the truth either, though.
The kind of thing discussed in the OP legitimately sucks, and it should piss people off. The danger of course is that the next homeless guy who may be legitimately starving suffers the consequences.
I don’t know whether to be amused or insulted that you didn’t get it.
Perhaps you just need to upgrade your sarcasm chip
You are confusing example with allusion, and it has nothing to do with plucking. “Featherless biped” is an allusion to Socrates’ discussion of how one defines the essence of humanity, which lies at the heart of this thread. Why is it that I am not suprised that this very basic allusion was way over your head? You claim that your parents paid for your college education, but it looks like they did not get much for their money.
Shutting down all hospitals is the logical result of such a position, but I expect that you won’t find much support on this one. The same can be said for schools. The same cane be said for parents feeding their children.
Except, of course, that you have not worked for it, and you have been given a great deal of money. Your parents raised you, and once your were an adult still paid for the education which you rely upon to find and keep employment.
Given that the fee would be far more than you are worth, would that be paid with your parents’ money, or through the public purse?
So what are we left with? A featherless biped who is poorly educated, who has difficulty thinking logically, and who has not been financially self-supporting, entering a world in which either financial or intellectual capital are necessary for survival without reliance upon others. You, sir, are and remain a chicken, having chicken thoughts of “beating the holier-than-thou homeless fuck to death.”
Seeing as you have already proven yourself to be a financial and intellectual weak link, feel free to back up you position.
Personally, I think that would be a tragedy. I believe most strongly that people with psychological problems deserve help, rather than deserve to be culled.
My parents haven’t paid for my college education, yet. I decided to take several years off after high school to decide how I wanted to spend the rest of my life. I will be returning to college this fall. They said they may be willing to repay my student loans, depending on my grades. Thus, I have to work my ass off for that money. As you would have noticed, had you read carefully, I said it was offered, not that they have done it yet.
And just because Socrate’s used it to define humanity, doesn’t mean it applies to chickens. You were the one who said “We both may be featherless bipeds.” We, as humans, may be featherless bipeds, but chicken sure as hell have feathers, so your allusion is fucked up. If you had used that arguement against my later example using monkeys or chimpanzees, I would have accepted is as what you intended it to be. But you had to try to apply it to chickens, which makes no fucking sense.
But, instead of attempting to make a little sense, and defending your opinion with fact and reason, you choose to insult me, calling me “A featherless biped who is poorly educated, who has difficulty thinking logically, and who has not been financially self-supporting, entering a world in which either financial or intellectual capital are necessary for survival without reliance upon others.” It’s just too bad none of your arguements are based on facts. Muffin, if you want to speak about logic, at least try to use some when you do.
And, in response to your arguement that my parents raised me because I asked, that is as insane as the rest of your arguements. My parents didn’t ask me if I wanted to be born. They decided to have a child, and then upheld their responsibility for caring for the human they brought into this world.
And, you’re right, I won’t find much support to shut down all the hospitals, even if it would be the best possible thing for the Earth. Most people are so afraid of death, at least in the US, that they want hospitals. Just because no one agrees with me, doesn’t mean I’m wrong. For the religous people out there, did everyone believe Jesus when he was alive? Do you think he is right? Personally, I don’t care if people believe me, or think I am right, because no one has proven me wrong, yet.
And, lastly, Muffin, I defer to Scylla for my response to your statement regarding “I would have found a lawyer who could get me off on justifiable homicide after beating the holier-than-thou homeless fuck to death.”
I remember back in 1990… I was 18, fresh out of high school, living in a city where I knew literally no one… I was laid off from my job because the company couldn’t afford to have two people in that position. I looked every day for jobs, but no one (NO ONE) was hiring. My apartment didn’t have electricity (no heat, no cooking, no refrigeration, no hot water…) and I had no food. Every day or every other day I’d go over to the grocery store and ask people for a quarter. When I had a couple of dollars, I’d buy a loaf of bread and a bag of apples and go home. It wasn’t something that made me happy to do, and I was looking for a job, I wasn’t just panhandling indefinitely… but if I hadn’t done it, I wouldn’t have eaten. I did have people on occassion go in and get me food, and I was overjoyed to get it. I had one woman walk me to Subway and buy me a sandwich and a soda. She was my hero for the day.
I guess my point is you can’t lump all people who beg for money/food into one group. There are as many reasons for it as there are people doing it. The guy in the OP was a shithead though, and should have been very harshly glared at from a safe distance (yeah so I’m a chicken. What’s your point?)
Oh, for chrissakes, child. That is so very typical of the pseudo-hip false cynicism that you’re spewing. Yes, no shit we are members of kingdom animalia. My point is simply that most people consider us to be somewhat different from the run-of-the-mill fight or flight animal kingdom.
If you do not believe humanity to be substantially different form other animals by virtue of our capacity for abstract thought, then I’m out. We can talk in a few years after you’ve grown up.
Like I said, poorly educated. Go to college; read Socrates. It “makes no fucking sense” to you because of your lack of education. You might be surprised at how an education can open your eyes, and help you make sense of things.
Like I said, difficulty thinking logically. Your statement suffers from post hoc ergo propter hoc, which, if you take up your parents on the education they are offering, you would learn is a logical fallacy.
Like I said, poorly educated and not financially self-supporting. What’s this “Yet.” “My parents haven’t paid for my college education, yet.” Pay your way through college without your parents, without student assistance, and without attending a state subsidized school, then get back to me about how self-supporting you are. Floating with a parental safety net and with the promise of paid-up schooling does not cut it by a long shot when it comes to being self-supporting in the terms of this thread on homeless, psychologically impaired beggars.
But as you have just demonstrated once again, you are poorly eductated, you have difficulty thinking logically, and you are still tied to your parent’s purse strings. These are facts which have been established and confimed by you, and which illustrate that you do not live by the harsh standards you set for others. Just because I am pointing out inadequacies in you does not meant that I am insulting you. I am simply proving that by your own reasoning, you should cull yourself. The “chicken” comment simply follows out of your not being willing to live by the harsh standards you set for others.
Quite simply, you are a young adult who is beginning to leave the nest, and taking your sweet time about it. You know so little of the world that you hastily judge others who have not been as fortunate as you.
Give me a call when you grow up, so we can talk about the social contract. Until then, bye bye, fry fry.
And being such a master of formatting, Muffin infinitely regresses somewhere off on the edge of the screen, into a vertical trail of crumbs.{Muffin, I fixed it, and I WAS just gonna remove this…but I like that imagery too much. And always remember, preview is your FRIEND. Lynn}
As logical people believe, proof goes a long way to proving a point. Or facts. You have yet to prove anything to back up your statements. When you do this, I might accept some of your statements as something other than bullshit.
[qoute]**
Like I said, poorly educated and not financially self-supporting. What’s this “Yet.” “My parents haven’t paid for my college education, yet.” Pay your way through college without your parents, without student assistance, and without attending a state subsidized school, then get back to me about how self-supporting you are. Floating with a parental safety net and with the promise of paid-up schooling does not cut it by a long shot when it comes to being self-supporting in the terms of this thread on homeless, psychologically impaired beggars. **[/qoute]
Let’s see. You say I’m not financially self supporting, yet I have not received any financial support from anyone other than my place of employment for the last 4 years. I have also not asked for fincanical help from anyone during this time. Before that, I was going to high school, from which I graduated with honors. And, after spending nearly a year studying Computer Software Engineering, I decided that I didn’t want to be a programmer, and moved 2000 miles away from my parents. So, Muffin, try to prove that I’m not financial self supported? And, as I have said several times before, my parents offered to pay for my college education. I didn’t ask them for anything. This is something they want to do, so I’ll probably let them. If they didn’t offer, I would still take out student loans, and pay them off myself. That’s called self responsibility, which is one of my standard, which I hold myself too. Prove your statements, Muffin, don’t just spout bullshit that you can’t back up.
woodstockbirdybird I can relate to your rant. I do not give money to a begger, but I will buy them a meal. Most of the time they are gracious and we have a nice conversation while walking to the restaurant and I am richer for the experience of having met them. But a few time I have been told they would rather have the cash. One guy said that his dealer was around the corner and he needed to pay him. I just say “Sorry, but I don’t give money” and continue walking.
Now regarding some of the other posters who are judging all of these people let me reply by saying–but for the grace of God go you. It could still happen to you. You can have a run of bad luck or develop a mental illness. So what if the begger developed their mental illness from drug use, you think they really want to be living like that; and who are you to be the judge and jury on the choices they made for their lives? I have only had one guy say that he enjoyed living on the streets. Learning some compassion would be a good thing. A polite “no” to the begger is enough if you chose not to give them anything.
I’m entirely not even close to willing to jump into the current debate, but I do have something to say about the OP:
Woody (I hope I can call you Woody!), I spend a lot of time in Baltimore City - I live five minutes or so outside the city lines. One particular area - Fells Point - is my second home. There are dozens of homeless people. There’s one, Esther, who I always treat to lunch and who saves me parking spots and protects me from metermaids. There’s on guy with a sign that says, “Why Lie? I want Booze!” There are a few angry veterans, some who clearly have drug problems, some who just sit there sadly and don’t even bother asking anymore, and some who chat me up and treat me like a friend.
When I go down there, I make a point to have about $5 or $6 to hand out. My friends call me wasteful, but several of these people I know by name. I hand out cigarettes and matches and spare change when I’m out of bills.
Lately, it’s been terribly cold so when I’m there on weekends, I will just buy a few hot pretzels from a stand and hand them out. Makes me feel good, and I know they’re eating. If my friends and I buy a pizaa at Uno’s, we’ll give out the leftover slices. And when I get coffee from the Daily Grind, I always buy a small black tea and give it to the first person I sea. There have been at least five times when something like your OP happened to me; every time I just walked away.
I try to live by the rule that you get what you give. I’ve been poor, I’ve been on the recieving end of welfare (and we never bought shrimp with our food stamps!). I know what it’s like to live on the edge and how easy it is to tumble over. So I do my best to be forgiving of the people who live on the streets. Sure, a lot of them could clean themselves up and get jobs. But a lot of them will never get out of the viscious cycle of poverty. So I do my best to be open-hearted toward the ones who are genuinely kind, and ignore the ones that aren’t.
You did an awesome thing and I respect that. But please don’t let one bad incident destroy your willingness to give and whatever else caused you to buy that dude some pizza.
Just for the record, I didn’t post this thread to start a debate on homelessness; I certainly wasn’t trying to generalize or judge the homeless community. It was just a rant at this particular guy, who was, let’s face it, an asshole, homeless or not. I try to be as compassionate as I can toward all people (while still retaining the right to be an unabashed smartass) - but man, did that fucknoggin piss me off.
