I’m still waiting for a cite that most countries other than the US have ‘banned’ guns, but even if that were the case, all that would establish is just that you can have a perfectly well-functioning society without any guns… So, I don’t know, not sure why that’s supposed to be such a terrible outlook?
Yes, and how does that poor criminal get ahold of that gun?
It’s more a matter of, “I only have 2 guns, so I can easily keep track of them.” I won’t lose them, have them stolen, or be tempted to sell them to people who may not be allowed to have them.
That is a pretty typical tactic, yes.
Which is why gun advocates are willing to be accountable for the words of every mass murderer.
You see what you choose to see, even if it has no basis in reality. It’s easy if you just ignore what people actually say, and substitute with what you think that they say.
I’ve been reading this thread and learning from it. I asked for the cite because I wanted to read the article. I’m not quibbling, and nobody asked you to write a research paper, so there’s no reason to get testy. I do think you’re supposed to cite sources in GD, something you might want to do next time you’re using statistics to support your argument.
If I am a bartender, and I serve you alcohol, and you get in your car and get in an accident, I can be held liable.
If I am a gun store owner, and I sell you a gun, and you go and shoot up a school, I am not held liable.
Nitpick: I am a US citizen, I was even born here and could be your president one day! But I didn’t grow up here and your (the general “your”) views on firearms are pretty alien to me.
Huh, so do you think that all republicans are racists?
Ah, I misunderstood, sorry.
For those who are interested, I’d like to offer two websites that I’m poking around in periodically:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country
I find it fascinating to look at/for correlations between the per capita rate of gun violence in a country and its gun laws. Correlation doesn’t always equal causation, and all things are not equal, but it is, at least, fascinating and, at best, instructive.
[DIGRESSION]
I chuckle at the term “American Exceptionalism.” To whatever extent one thinks that America is great, it got that way in spite of “American Exceptionalists,” not because of them.
And I’ll speculate (even in GD) that ardent 2dA support and belief in “American Exceptionalism” are pretty highly correlated.
I’m always interested in who’s doing it better, and how they’re doing it. We should always be implementing best practices, but for the “American Exceptionalists,” it seems more than adequate if they can find somebody who’s “doing it worse” than we are (eg, “Try to be an illegal alien in Mexico and see what happens !”).
[/DIGRESSION]
Just for a data point. I think the US is a pretty average country.
Why do you hate America ?
Not enough guns?
If you’re referring to me, I haven’t backpedalled at all, nor did you demonstrate that cars are regulated at a much lower level than guns. You simply ignored all the ways in which car usage is more regulated, and then moved the goalposts to talk about applied enforcement, an area more convenient to your preferred narrative (much like pretending that I “backpedalled” is).
< ticks off “Welp, there’s nothing we can possibly do about all these gun deaths” on my gun rights advocate excuse Bingo card >
Of course, most of the proposals put forward in the US are already defanged by the gun lobby before they ever see a committee, and even then those same gun lobbies cry about how oppressed they are. There are certainly many other options available that have been shown to work in many other countries, even without a “99% ban”, but the “American exceptionalism” handwave seems to prevent those from ever being considered.
And I’ve been enjoying watching you misuse the quote of mine you keep repeating, while simultaneously validating it.
Really? This is the conversation I was hoping we’d get back too. I really do think that guns and cars should be regulated similarly.
I’m totally OK with testing and licensing for public usage and I think there should be virtually no regulation on private usage.
Let’s talk about those then. I think red flag laws are a great idea and should have stopped grocery store shooting in Colorado earlier this year (It obviously didn’t and I’d like to see more reporting on why his family that thought he was crazy didn’t report it when they saw he bought a gun). What other ideas do you have and how would they have stopped a shooting?
I’m always happy to amuse. That is 99% of the reason I’m here; amuse and be amused
My dog just sidled up to me. Seems he smelled a red herring.
The idea is to decrease the likelihood of future gun violence.
Speed limits don’t eliminate speeders, but they tend to bring down average speeds.
Mexico’s strict gun laws haven’t prevented them from suffering a high rate of gun violence, but which way would that rate go if they loosened their strict gun laws ?
We have some 393,000,000 privately owned guns in the US. At what point does the “good guy with a gun” thing start making a dent in this stuff ?
Asking for a friend.
No idea. I’m not a proponent of the theory.
Are you saying you have no ideas to reduce shootings besides getting rid of guns? I’ve been just told repeatedly that there are tons of other ideas.
It is more than a bit disingenuous for you to repeatedly do this nonsense (endless hyperbolic straw men).
But as long as it amuses you …
So I make concrete proposals: red flag laws, regulating guns like cars. You ask about good guys shooting bad guys and I’m the one being disingenuous?
Absolutely.
If you find it easier to argue against what you wish people had said than to argue against what they actually do say, well … I won’t stop you.
But … yes. Absolutely. It’s called a straw man fallacy (and/or loaded question – no pun intended).
If you offered concrete proposals, you do not get a pass for this kind of abject logical fallacy just because of you made those proposals.
And my “good guy with a gun” question raised the issue of why the nation with the highest rate of gun ownership still has gun violence rates that are on the rise. No logical fallacy there. Nothing disingenuous about it.