No. By the very end of the 1700s and early 1800s it was quite clear that the earth was older than 6,000 years. They didn’t know how old it really was, and had a hard time coming up with a mechanism to explain how the sun could burn as long as the rocks said it did. The discovery of fusion answered the question, but the people asking it, and coming up with hypotheses, were doing science the right way.
The only evidence I have to offer is anecdotal.
Sorry for the double post, I meant to respond to this with the last one.
Once again, your analogy confuses me. You seem to be suggesting that I’m knowingly following a false god?
It’s been my experience that brimstone-loving preachers sometimes choose to ignore one verse while pontificating another. For example, a preacher going overboard talking about damnation for non-believers may forget to “love thy neighbor”.
Does anyone recall if there’s a verse anywhere in the bible telling us something like, we shouldn’t judge each other; that judging is up to God alone? If so, that would certainly be another example of ignoring one while pontificating another.
I am in the process of coming to believe there is a God. The process is difficult and sometimes painful. I don’t know if there will be an end to this process and I will finally settle into ‘knowing’, if you get my drift.
I am convinced of one thing. I am convinced that many devout religious scholars and practitioners are absolutely wrong about what God is.
YMMV.
spooje does that mean you were once a disbeliever?
I don’t believe in God. Which means I happen to feel sure he or it doesn’t exist. They may sound like the same thing worded differently, but I think the second statement takes it a stage further.
It implies that I think all people who believe in God are mistaken.
I am not comfortable with that, as I have tried to be someone who accepts other people’s beliefs as if they are just as valid as mine, so as not to imply I am somehow better than other people. But I can’t change what I think on this score.
On another score, the complexity of the debate in this thread, and the apparent total confidence by intelligent believers in the existence of God, whatever form he/she/it takes, worries me and breaks a little of my confidence in my own lack of belief (or as I would rather phrase it - Firm belief in the lack of a God of any kind)
Today this made me imagine changing from Atheism to Theism (or suddenly believing in God) and what it would do. It occurs to me that it would totally destroy my trust and confidence in my world view and years of logical reasoning. It would destroy me as a person.
So not only do I not believe in God. I never ever want to. I hope that God doesnt exist regardless of what people believe. I hope that believers are mistaken.
I understand your point but those preachers that love a good dose of brimstone and damnation tend to see things differently. For them, the Bible has to be taken as a whole, including the grisly, baby-killing parts and the threats of eternal retribution.
They tend to focus on Leviticus and other bits of the old testament. Add in a few bits from the book of Revelations and you’ve got the necessary justification for just about anything.
Regards
Testy
Why do you consider everyone’s opinion or belief as good as your own? Regardless of how nice the idea sounds, I would think that this is demonstratably untrue.
Regards
Testy
Indeed, it does.
You may not believe this, but I had a similar experience almost a year ago during what I later judged to be a sudden bout of depression - except the exact opposite hypothetical situation. Of course, having been a theist since I can ever remember, I think I can imagine how you felt. It was probably the scariest thing (mentally speaking, anyway) I have ever experienced; it felt like my world was suddenly crumbling around me and I was feeling imminent hell…
Yeah, sorry about ranting and raving like that, but I do think such experiences can be really, really unnerving, to say the least.
No, that while you follow a god, you are uncertain. I my analogy, the person thinks that the oasis might exist, but also knows that it might not.
The point is that people who are absolutely sure are less tolerant than those who admit that they might be wrong. Like, I’d expect, those who depend on anecdotal evidence.
They’re also less realistic, IMHO.
Probably a percentage equivalent to what the ratio of believers/nonbelievers is in the general population.
In my experience religion has no correlation what-so-ever to whether or not a person gives to charities or is involved in charitable organizations, other than maybe the religious like to see their charity as an effort of faith, whereas the non-religious just see is as helping their fellow humans.
I don’t understand why you think I am uncertain.
And by the way, while it may be anecdotal to you, to me it is first hand eyewitness account.
Not their opinion of belief about everything. Just about the existence of God. And I don’t ‘consider’ them as valid. What I mean is I try to behave as if they are equally valid. I refrain from behaving as if belief in God is inferior to belief in non-existence of God.
Far far more intelligent people than me have claimed to be unsure about God’s existence. So who am I to imply that I have better reasoning capabilities than them!
Originally Posted by Lobsang
Could you please elaborate on this, [B[Lobsang**?
It’s only the third time you’ve been asked about this.
I didn’t realise.
Which bit should I elaborate on? I said it so long ago that I have lost all the train of thought that led to me saying it. It was not long after the Tsunami, and at the time a few things about the response suggested religion being linked to the physical and financial help being given.
I’d like to think that atheists as a group are equally as charitable (not just financially) as theists, but at the time I felt that atheists were generally more apathetic. I could be totally wrong.
Also, Atheists don’t have a powerful being watching their every move. Therefore possibly have less reason to feel guilt at not being charitable. It’s a weak argument I know, but as I said it was a while ago.
Well, You’re totally wrong.
Most of the money donated by private citizens came from atheïsts, around here. How do I know? Because most of the people in the Netherlands don’t believe.
Personally, I find this a pretty insulting thought of you. But then again: Freedom of speech before anything, right?