"There's a fine line between clever and stupid" - who would you argue is clever?

Hang on. What about this version?

I’m hearing “no bows” on that one, too. What do you think?

Obviously, Lennon’s I Am The Walrus was influenced by Dylan. I always figured a lot of the lyrics were just Lennon playing with the sound of the words and the rhythm of them, not the meanings. Although I’m sure there were some who spent hours trying to write academic papers on the deep meaning of lyrics like “Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog’s eye”

You know what? Listening again (and I’ve listened to the song umpteen times, and I knew the alternate version too), I now clearly hear “Don’t tie no bows”. Whereas the aforementioned lyrics book and the official Bob Dylan website say “Don’t try No Doz”. But that doesn’t count for much, as I said Dylan lyrics were often sloppily transcribed, and he used to change lines in the studio on the spot between takes, and maybe his noted lyrics differed from the final sung version. There are many such ambiguities in his work.

I am reminded of the now banned poster lissner who defended Showgirls at every turn. It wasn’t a movie so poorly made it made stripping unwatchable and sex in a pool with Elizabeth Berkely an erection killer but a brilliant satire in which Paul Verhoeven’s genius flew over everyone’s head.

Well, not for the first time Stupid had a better PR machine than Clever.

Same with their lyrics. People may say they were simplistic or didn’t make any sense, but I find songs like Teenage Lobotomy or Cretin Hop very clever (isn’t “Guess I have to break the news, that I got no mind to lose” a great line?). Those lyrics perfectly matched the music, and Joey’s obsession with mental illness was grounded in his own lifetime struggles, and in my book were a perfect expression of handling them. Though the Ramones may never have heard of Hans Arp or Kurt Schwitters, there’s a common thread from 1916 Cabaret Voltaire, Zurich Dada to modern Punk (if anybody is interested further, I can only recommend Greil Marcus’ book Lipstick Traces about those commonalities). Primitive doesn’t always equal dumb.

Must have been weird not having anybody come on him.

[QUOTE=Ranger Jeff]
Obviously, Lennon’s I Am The Walrus was influenced by Dylan. I always figured a lot of the lyrics were just Lennon playing with the sound of the words and the rhythm of them, not the meanings. Although I’m sure there were some who spent hours trying to write academic papers on the deep meaning of lyrics like “Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog’s eye”
[/QUOTE]

He deliberately wrote the song to fuck with people who did just that with other Beatles songs - IIRC he’d received mail from a kid whose teacher had given them such an assignment, and had become furious. “Let’s see you analyze *this, *fuckers” was the sentiment, if not the actual quote (my Beatles biog is out of arms’ reach).

To be fair it wasn’t just lissener. He was just rather more aggressive/abrasive about his arguments. Other more popular posters with a film education like Cervaise agreed with him. Without re-hashing those arguments I could kinda see their point, though in the end I think it was clever speculation more than an absolutely provable argument ( unless Verhoeven has since come clean on the topic ).

Doesn’t make Showgirls anymore watchable though ;). Brilliant satire or not, as simple entertainment it was a gigantic, absolutely massive fail.