By the way Moriah, play all the scenarios you want, I’m sure they make you feel very clever, but usually the simplest explanation is the right explanation. I’m sure a “mental moron” like me, doesn’t need to tell a supergenius like you, who first said that.
You are right, I probably should have started my own pit thread about what happened to my daughter so that it didn’t seem like I was placing blame on that boys school.
In my situation that is the case and I realise that it might not be the same with the boy. I thought I kind of touched on that in a later post.
I am concerned that the parents sent him off to school the next day.
For whatever reason the boy took a car.
As a parent I would have sought counsiling for him. No matter if it was something he did for attention or because he was scared.
Either way there is an issue.
If he was scared of something that needs to be addressed, and if he did it for kicks that needs to be addressed before it leads to worse behavior.
Ok maybe this will help.
Here’s another quote:From the Examiner in Eastern Jackson County, MO
Emphasis added.
Oookay. Now, I know very little about school policy in Missouri.
It is my understanding though that anti-bullying strategies vary widely in terms of quality.
To be specific, having school presentations showing how bullying is not nice can be counterproductive. Admittedly, the presentations give the victims hope. The bullies, on the hand learn that, Hey, bullying works! The positive effects of such presentations may last approximately as long as the presentations themselves.
Hands-on conflict resolution, OTOH, by school Deans and the like can work after a couple of years.
Or so I gleened from NPR, admittedly when I was half awake.
Same here. There’s not much to go on in the OP’s article, but I will say that when I was in school, the bullies ruled and the administration did precious little to try to stop it.
For what it’s worth, now that I’ve opened a can of worms:
- IMO, what the Assoc. Sup. said was sound bite. “We take allegations of bullying seriously” – yeah, right! It’s equivalent to the Mandatory Political Disclaimer required from any person speaking in reference to foreign policy whatsoever: “Of course I think we should combat terrorism, but…” What fills in the ellipsis, of course, is the substantive comment he wants to make – but he needs to get that disclaimer in to protect his political ass (or pachyderm).
She should IMO have said something to the effect that the district will do their best to uncover why the boy made those allegations of bullying, and if there was bullying going on (as is likely), they’d put in a plan to end it, or do the best they can towards putting an end to it.
- Yes, it’s theoretically possible the boy was covering up. It’s also theoretically possible that somewhere in the Iraqi desert is Saddam’s Secret Stash of WMDs, which no living Iraqi but he knows is there. And it’s theoretically possible that God created the Universe on October 24, 4004 BC, complete with evidence of 15 billion years of past history embedded. And it’s theoretically possible that superintelligent giant squids will lay claim to all the land in the world.
I think enough people have already mentioned how it’s often convenient for authorities to blame the victim, rather than getting to the bottom of what actually happened. Do feel free to continue explaining in this thread how the boy really doesn’t have any problems and is covering up for something he did on a lark – it may not connect with the actual situation very well, but it’s intensely revealing of something else very interesting.
- I admit fully to overreacting – I had a piss-poor childhood, for reasons very similar to those given by others. And it pushes me over the edge to see kids taking extreme measures to escape bullying and/or ostracism – that’s what the authority structure that kids willingly submit to is for, to protect them from shit like that. And to see the “it happens; he needs to deal with it” crap that has been foisted in a few posts here really pisses me off.
In other words, you’d have preferred a slightly longer sound bite. And I still maintain that you have absolutely no basis for deciding that it “is likely” that bullying was going on, other than your own prejudices.
Again, you are making a qualitative judgment about the situation for which you have absolutely no evidence. None. Zero.
True. But upon what basis have you decided that that’s what’s happening here? What information do you have that you’re not sharing with us?
Cite? The most anyone has said is that there are other, perfectly plausible explanations for what happened, and that jumping to a conclusion in the absence of any more information is uncalled for.
Don’t be coy. Of what, precisely, are you accusing other posters? Which other posters?
That’s truly unfortunate, but it has no bearing on our evaluation of what happened in this instance.
Again, I submit that you simply have no grounds for reaching the conclusion that that’s the situation here. It’s certainly possible. So are several other scenarios. You’ve apparently made up your mind, on the evidence of one brief sentence, that you know exactly what’s going on here.
Cite? I don’t believe anyone has said that (forgive me if someone has, and I’ve just missed it).
This has been a fascinating thread for what it reveals about human nature. We’ve seen a small parade of posters who had rough periods in their childhoods projecting their own experiences onto a brief news item, on the flimsiest of evidence. Each has decided that, because he or she was bullied, and it was a miserable experience, this kid must certainly have suffered the same mistreatment. They’ve completely discounted any other possible explanations for what happened, it appears, solely on the basis that they really were bullied - therefore, this kid must also have been bullied.
And, having made that leap of illogic, some have condemned a school official who, as far as we can tell from the tiny bits of information we have, may be a concerned, caring individual who will do her utmost to find out the truth, and will take whatever actions are needed to fix whatever problems she finds.
Of course, we’ll probably never know. This is one of those news items that pops up briefly, and is never heard from again (unless someone on these boards happens to live in the same town).
My turn
Until I reached high school I lived in terror . The bullies especially enjoyed to see me run. My father despised cowards.(he never knew how often I fled from the bullies). My self esteem was severely tested.
But this 11 year old shows panache. I can’t see a young victim of bullying showing panache. In fact his excuse is a perfect way of deflecting the severe consequences that one would normally expect for such bold bad behavior. Methinks that this young boy is actually more likely to be a bully than a victim.
YMMV
In all the brouhaha, we’ve let this aspect of the story slip past us (“we” meaning everyone except Larry Mudd, of course).
I think this is probably the most intriquing aspect of the whole tale. I’d love to see a reenactment of that scene! 
Amen, even through my frustration I found that pretty interesting. I always wonder what kind of person assumes that children don’t know how to lie, but maybe it does have more to do with this specific allegation.
It’s interesting that you should mention this- if the boy’s father also despises cowards, it could explain why the boy ran away, and why his parents put him back in school the next day. 
That’s two comebacks. Keep trying, I’m rootin’ for ya!
I don’t need, or want you to root for me. Apparently, you are willing to accept whatever fits your preconceptions, and discount any other possibility. If the school declares there is no problem, you will call that “evidence”, completely discounting the possibility that they already realize any other “finding” would put them in a bad light. Yes, “grownups” always tell the truth. On the other hand, you assume the “little car thief” is lying. Yes, all youngsters are “liars”. You choose to discount the posters who (wherever they are) say there are problems. Despite the probable fact that they all are or were in different schools, in who knows what countries (not an isolated or unusual problem?), you hold to the idea that they are all rare and isolated incidents (or just don’t happen). Anything that anyone says, if it conflicts with your world view is obviously wrong and comes from a bunch of malcontents with an axe to grind. So, you believe what you want, I’ll believe what I want. I just don’t buy the idea that “Speed Racer” woke up one morning and decided, out of the blue, “I’m gonna steal dad’s car and skip town”. I think something triggered it. Now go ahead and have the last word, I know you have to.
If you can quote back to me where in this thread I wrote that I rule out that the kid is telling the truth, I will apologize for that gross error in judgment. If I remember correctly (rereading thread)… hmmm… I only pointed out we can’t be sure the kid is telling the truth, that he MIGHT be lying… so, where did I write I believe he’s definitely lying?
You wouldn’t be setting up a straw man argument, putting words in my mouth that I never said so that you can triumphantly knock it down, would you?
And so, we’re all waiting for that cite where you prove I came down on the proposition that the kid is simply lying.
Until you do, we all here will realize that you are a hysterical asshole.
In post 21 you already set the tone, inferring that the claim was false and “hinted” that instead the family is (or may be) abusive, with no more evidence than the rest of us have.
In post 34 you valiantly fought for the rights of “alleged bullies” and said this car ride was just an outrageous stunt (“hinting?” that the original story is a lie).
In post 58 you finally got around to personal insults and again saying that maybe(?) the family is abusive, again based on no evidence whatsoever.
You completely ignore any posters who say “Yes such a thing does happen”, and there were quite a few. You are locked in on accusing the family of something, and tossing insults instead of giving any “facts or evidence” of your own. Do you have a personal problem? Or is it you that is the asshole?
Moriah et al.: When I was just a little kid, my aunt brought me home some books from the library that introduced me to how to reason through one’s problems clearly, by showing the lead characters doing it. (Yes, Fenris, those books. :)) That book introduced me to William of Ockham and his Razor.
In rough summary, here’s my stance: Yes, it’s possible the kid did go for a joyride, or is covering up for abusive parents, or doesn’t want to admit he was abducted by aliens who gave him anal probes, or any number of other scenarios. But the minimum number of assumptions results from the concept that he’s telling the truth, that he’s been assaulted by bullies whom the school district has not caught bullying, and is at his rope’s end as regards them. This does not rule out the other possibilities – it simply takes as an initial presumption, subject to being shown as incorrect, the idea that the boy is telling the truth.
And I don’t believe that the Associate Superintendent of Schools should be herself going around catching bullies – I believe that she got the job in order that she should supervise and set policy – and if the kid is telling the truth, then her policies have been inadequate to prevent bullying.
Now, bullying did not just come on the scene in 2004 A.D.; schoolyard bullies have been around for decades. Hence, an administrator ought to be expected to be aware of the potential for bullying, and to have measures in place to prevent or minimize it. Clearly, rather than being pro-active beforehand, she’s being reactive afterwards – and where kids are concerned, “We had no idea anything was going on” is not enough, IMO. That’s why I pitted her. She’s not supposed to be on top of the idea that an Advanced Physics 12th grader can use quantum teleportation of electrons to image the girl’s locker room – if he can achieve that technical advance, the N.S.A. will provide him with hot and cold running Playmates of the Month to develop it. But the idea that bullies exist in school settings is not rocket science – look at the posts in this thread. Yes, nothing has been proven yet – but she should have been on top of the situation from day one, not reacting to the press after a kid commits a newsworthy exploit to escape the situation.
Does that make my position more clear?
Well, obviously you’re not going to quote me, because you’re either too dumb to know how, or, you’re too dumb to read English correctly. Quote what I said instead of characterizing it incorrectly if you want to show what I really wrote. I didn’t ‘hint.’ I stated quite plainly, without any hinting, that that was a possibility. A possibility. A possibility. Aww, fuck, I’m sure you still don’t get it.
Yes. People who are alleged to have committed crimes have rights because, in the U.S. people are innocent until proven guilty. If the family sues these alleged bullies, are you going to show up in court haranguing everyone with your own experiences of being bullied to prove they are, in fact, bullies? I’m glad you see my defense of the accused to their due rights as valiant.
I’m proud, too, of my patience and constraint.
It is precisely because there is “NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER” (your words) to corroborate the boys claim, then there is a possibility that MAYBE the boy is lying. When I suggest that, you and others started clamoring: “I was bullied, so, how can this boy claiming to be bullied be lying?” And so, I offered a possible scenario to show how it is plausible that the boy is lying. And with no evidence whatsoever (except for the fact that bullying exists [which I’ve never denied]) you say that because you were bullied, you side with (hint??) the boy’s story of the event is true. That’s not evidence. That’s blind faith.
Not at all. Am I ignoring you, yet? Did I say bullying doesn’t exist?
Oh, the irony.
When a boy comes home crying he was bullied, then Ockham’s Razor applies. Or, if he cut school by walking to a park, ditto.
When he runs away from both home and school in a way that would get him into deep trouble, and the administrator isn’t aware of the bullying and the parents aren’t quoted “we knew he was upset…” “he would say he hated going to school…”, well, then, the scenario is not as easy to cut through.
Remember, Ockham’s Razor gives the most likely result. And some of the details here makes that result a little less likely, even if it’s still the most likely.
And sometimes, Ockham’s Razor is wrong. As a tool of argument, it’s not proof. It does not provide justification to start pitting, especially pitting what a school administrator says through a reporter’s filter with so little other corroborating reporting and evidence.
Peace.
I don’t know Polycarp, that squid thing sounds pretty far-fetched to me.
SteveG1, moriah may have started the shit-slinging, but you have been ignoring her basic point, which is (feel free to correct me moriah) that just because bullying is prevalent across the country (to judge from the anecdotal experiences offered here), it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what happened in this case, and that based on the newspaper material, there isn’t enough information to know if bullying occurred, or even if it did occur, that it was the sole or major contributing factor in the kid’s decision to take a road trip.
Now let’s all have some pie and welcome our new giant squid overlords.
No.
When is “day one”?
Is “day one” when the kid took the car joy riding?
Is “day one” when the “alleged” bullying began? Let me get this straight…she should “have been on top of the situation” when we don’t even know what that “situation” is, right?
What does “on top of the situation” mean? Does that mean an associate superintendent should be aware of every bullying accusation in a building in his/her district? As ~tom and others have pointed out…it’s a bit much to expect a building principal to be aware of every bullying situation, much less an associate supt.
I was bullied a lot in school. Well, not bullied, because it was never anything elaborate or physical, but I was picked on, laughed at and insulted on a fairly regular basis. A lot of it was becasue I was overweight, nerdy, with a foreign accdent and a habit of reading large paperbacks under my desk during class. It was horrible some of the time, but mostly I just let it wash over me, grimacing at the taunts and then getting back to Stephen King.
However, many years later my mother came up to me and told me that my nine-year-old brother was being harrassed in school. Apparently a new kid had showed up at class, recruited a couple of allies and made it his life mission to make my brother’s day a living hell. Nothing physical: my brother has always been tall and strong for his age. Just insults, name-calling and lies. Soon he had managed to turn the rest of the class against him. Now, my brother was nothing like me at his age. Before this had started he had a been popular, confident and happy kid; his problem was that he was completely without guile and malice, and had no idea how to handle this type of situation. This bully had hit on his blind spot, and his world had been cut adrift. My mother asked me to help him however I could.
So the next day I put on a black T-shirt (I had converted a lot of that extra weight to muscle) and my most manacing pair of sunglasses and went down to my brother’s grade school. As they came out, my brother nodded imperceptibly towards his persecutor and left the scene. I walked over to the little bully and grabbed him. Pinning him gently but firmly with one hand against a car, I had a little conversation. I didn’t hurt him. I didn’t use invective. I didn’t even threaten him. I just told him whose brother I was, and that I was his BIG brother, the BIGGEST brother around, and that I didn’t like the way he was treating him. I made sure he understood and let him go.
Now, you may say that a 23-year-old man physically intimidating a 9-year-old child is not a good thing, and I’m certainly not proud of what I did. All I know is that the very next day my brother’s harrassment stopped, and that it never resumed. Within a month he and his fromer tormenter were good friends, and that the ex-bully was doing much better at his schoolwork and disrupting less in class. And I know that my brother is now the happiest, most well adjusted and most emotionally healthy 16-year-old I have ever met. He’s everything I wanted to be at that age.
What’s my point? I’m not sure. Maybe that all’s fair when dealing with bullies. Maybe that you should fight fire with a bigger fire. Or maybe that you should trust your family and tel them when you’re unhappy. If I had told my parents about my troubles at a young age maybe things would have turned out different