This is a question of fact, and not intended to invite a political debate.
Recently I’ve noticed on several boards the use of ‘they’ to refer to a poster whose gender was unknown (which of course is actually the norm on the Internet if the username is not explicit). I’m aware of the (AFAIK fairly recent) practice of using ‘they’ for persons who identify as non-binary. But is ‘they’ now also becoming used in cases where you just don’t want to presume the gender of the OP, hence as replacement for ‘him/her’ as used in the past?
I’m not looking for opinions on whether people think this is a good or bad development, simply wish to verify whether this is indeed the current practice, and possibly whether this is generally accepted or only in specific areas of social life. So please leave out politics.
If I’m mistaken in my impression or if I phrased my question incorrectly, I’d be happy to hear about that as well.
Using “they” as an indeterminate singular pronoun long predates the modern usage as a pronoun to use for non-binary folk (also known as enbies). In fact, it is that usage that led to its use as the enby pronoun. Other attempts at such pronouns were tried, but the only one that caught on was the one people were already using.
Shakespeare used singular they in this way
(Click to see examples)
A Comedy of Errors , Act IV, Scene 3:
There’s not a man I meet but doth salute me
As if I were their well-acquainted friend
The Rape of Lucrece:
Now leaden slumber with life’s strength doth fight;
And every one to rest themselves betake,
Save thieves, and cares, and troubled minds, that wake.
And while there really aren’t any originals around, a 15th Century copy of Chaucer’s The Canterbury Tales even uses it this way:"
(Click to Read)
“The Pardoner’s Prologue” Lines 99-100
And who so fyndeth hym out of swich fame,
They wol come up and offre, on goddes name,
(Modern spelling: “And whoso findeth him/them out of such fame/They will come up and offer, on God’s name.” The word “hym” is ambiguous, and can mean either hem[them] or him.)
It’s only in the 18th century, likely due to Latin, that grammarians started insisting that “they” was only plural, and insisted on using “he.” Then, in the 20th Century, this was deemed sexist, thus leading to “he/she” or “he or she” or similar constructions. However, use of singular “they” had never completely vanished, especially in less formal English. And, with the unwieldiness of “he/she,” the indeterminate pronoun started becoming more popular again.
I can’t say when grammarians started saying that the indeterminate singular they was acceptable again, but I do know that it is used in the 2011 edition of the NIV Bible. The preface of that edition says that its grammarians had said that it was standard English for a person of indeterminate gender.
So, to answer your question: indeterminate-gender singular “they” has been standard English since at least the first decade of the 21st Century.
That’s because there is a battle between using “themself” or “themselves” for the singular. The latter has the advantage of history, while the former better matches with “yourself” and “yourselves.”
I’m still not sure which one will win out in the end.
I would say that there has been a change from the singular “they” used in Shakespeare. Historically, “they” was only used as a singular in the case of an indeterminate person.
“Oh, someone left their bag on this bench. I wonder if we can find them?”
Then it drifted into being used in cases where the references person was indeterminate to the audience, but not the speaker. And/or the gender of the party is of no interest
“That customer didn’t take their change.”
And now it is also used, in some cases, for a known, particular person who prefers (or accepts) “they” as their pronoun.
“I ran into Pat at the mall.”. “oh, what are they up to these days?”
That last still sounds weird to my creaky old ears, but is increasingly common and accepted by grammarians.
Sure, there is. But that historical use is the one that the OP is asking about. They had apparently heard of the new use for non-binary people, but not the older use for indeterminate gender.
As an aside, I watched a zoom interview with the great science fiction author Lois McMaster Bujold a couple of days ago, and she said that the one thing she wished she could change in her older works, was how her race of genetically-engineered intersex humans, the Betan Hermaphrodites (which she also admitted was an outdated term), preferred the pronoun “it” rather than “he/him” or “she/her”. If she’d invented them today, she definitely would have used “they/them”.
Thanks for all the answers. As background, I’m a non-native speaker (as you probably realized already), which may colour my perception. I have encountered ‘they’ for indeterminate gender in cases like the examples given, but apparently didn’t register this.
I’m still somewhat surprised to read: “The OP asked a question They probably mean…”. If I read your answers correctly this has always been perfectly normal in English. I wasn’t aware of that. Ignorance fought.
Edited to add:
In the helpful overview of puzzlegal, I was aware of the first stage but seem to have missed the later stages.
Most NB will emphatically tell you that they are not an “it”, and insist that “it” can’t be a human pronoun. But there are a few that insist “it” is their pronoun, and their only legitimate pronoun. (Or I guess “its’s” pronoun?)
Anything’s fair game nowadays, best to ask people what they prefer. Anyway what I mean to say is that McMaster shouldn’t automatically assume she was wrong, especially in a sci-fi world that she created herself.
At work recently, I was talking with a colleague from another department in the U.S. about a certain customer, whose first name is Tony. Neither one of us knows Tony, who works for an outside company, but we had discussed the case in writing and there was no doubt about the spelling.
I was using “he” to talk about Tony, but after a couple of sentences I observed that my colleague was using “they”. Is it customary to do this when the person’s name is very probably a guy’s name ?
Even if the identity of Tony is known, it does not seem to be absolutely forbidden to use “they” with a masculine antecedent. Though I’m not sure it is “customary”.
You can positively tell someone’s sex based on minor spelling variations?
ETA there are plenty of male "Toni"s and vice versa. I admit I would normally expect “Nino” to be a guy vs “Nina” though. Yet there are female "Nino"s too
It’s actually something I’ve noticed a lot. Men seem loathe to use name abbreviations that end in “-i”. Terri is usually female. So is Jeri. Or Jami.
Obviously not everyone follows this. But I would definitely default to thinking of “Tony” as a male and “Toni” as female, and would take mental work to switch to using “they” instead.
The above posts made me think of a follow-up question: if you receive an e-mail from someone who doesn’t clearly state their gender, how should you address them? Is there a neutral version of mr/mrs? The first name is no unequivocal sign of gender.
You could of course evade the issue with ‘Dear (first name)’, but that seems somewhat informal to me.
E-mails are not formal correspondence. Sorry Though if you want there is always good old “Dear Sir or Madam:”
ETA I’m never sure if an email ends up in a black hole or is otherwise read by anyone. Not something I would gamble on in the case of important business.
I hope I didn’t miss something or misunderstand something, but I’d have thought someone would have pointed out that “they” is a replacement for “he/she,” while “them” is a replacement for “him/her.”
Though if you want there is always good old “Dear Sir or Madam:”