Is this how you relate to people in real life? If it is I have no problem understanding why people respond to you in a defensive hostile manner. Hint: It has nothing to do with any Aspergers you may or may not have.
I think people are saying, ftg, that your generalizations are way too broad. There are no doubt people with Asperger’s who will answer a question in an efficient manner. And then there are others who answer a question tangentially, circumstantially, never getting to the point. And to complicate things, they may even think they are being succinct. Blindspots will do that to a person.
I too find it frustrating when people don’t answer what I think it is fairly straightforward question. However, I also understand when people find it frustrating that I can’t seem to “read between the lines”. Concrete thinking has its strengths. But it’s not everything. I may also be a little too efficient in my way of communicating. I will often tune out details that I find superfluous and then find out later that I missed something critical.
I am annoyed by lots of things. I have no idea if this is because of my personality, neurology, or what. One thing that wears me out is feigning empathy. On one hand, I wish I could relate to 99% of the shit that put people in a tizzy, but on the other hand, I wish people weren’t all the time IN a tizzy. And they are. Emotions are ever-present, complicating every goshdarn thing. I also wish that I cared more about fitting in. Even when I don’t want to be eccentric and I’m being mindful of what I say and do, I nonetheless find myself wearing the I’m the Giant Weirdo In the Room placard. This is makes me dislike myself, though I think I do a good job acting like I’m fine with who I am most of the time. But sometimes it gets lonely and I wish for destructive things.
There are so many ways of dividing up people. Nationality, race, gender, class, and even employment status. And now we’ve got neurology thrown into the mix. I’ve lived my entire life bucking stereotypes and trying hard, which much success, not to cling hard to any one “identity”. Someone once described me as the epitome of ambiguous because I look like both everything and no thing. I took it as a compliment, because I think divisions are kind of made up anyway. I’m keepin’ it real, as the young folks say! So it makes sense to me that, despite my doctors’ insistence that I’m in denial, I shouldn’t adopt yet another stigmitizing label for myself. A label doesn’t bring relief or comfort for me, and it often only confounds clear communication. It’s just another reason to feel alienated and frustrated about stuff that I can’t change. I’m trying to get away from these feelings, not embrace them.
This is interesting, and is going to cause me to ask an ignorant question, but we’re here to fight that, right? So…
How are kids diagnosed with <or even suspected of having> AS with reading? Part of what reading does for a kid is open up other worlds and, more importantly OTHER POINTS OF VIEW, often from inside the head of the protagonist or whatever point of view the book is presenting. It’s great.
Anyway, I always wondered if experiencing a wider variety of opinions, views and experiences, even sideways through various media, would expand an AS’ mind a bit or just make things more confusing.
Except , of course, that this
is an example of a response to a different question. The answer to the question you asked is either “No” or “Yes” (and I do know people who answer that way.) Of course, the only reason you are likely to ask about my knowledge is because you want to know where the widget is. You seem to have no problem if I illogically respond to something you left unspoken- as long as I am correct and I make sure not to leave anything unspoken in my response-
Q Do you know where the sewing scissors are ? ( Really means where are the sewing scissors ?)
A What do you need them for ? ( The last time i told you where they were you used them to clip coupons out of the newspaper and ruined the blade. You’re not ruining this pair)
And the person I know who is most similar to self-diagnosed Aspies goes back and forth between
Q Do you know what time it is?
A Yes
and
Q Did you call the rest of the group?
A I contacted everyone
Q I didn’t ask if you contacted them. Did you pick up the phone and call?
A I got in touch with everyone
Q How did you get in touch with them?
A I emailed them two days ago.
Q Do you think everyone is like you, checking email every two minutes? Pick up the phone and call.
doreen, me saying “Do you know where the widget is?” instead of “Where is the widget?” is a something I’ve learned to deal with NTs. My default way of talking is considered rude so I try to adapt to social expectations.
Ditto on the other end. I have to bite my tongue when someone asks if I know where the widget is. Cause I just want to answer “Yes.” and go about my business.
Taomist asks: “Anyway, I always wondered if experiencing a wider variety of opinions, views and experiences, even sideways through various media, would expand an AS’ mind a bit or just make things more confusing.”
It can, it certainly works for me. Up to a point, though. But it is a spectrum. Many just don’t care about others mental states and won’t try to learn. I was a college prof and was raised to value learning very highly. So I continue to try to learn.
(An example of an all too stereotypical person is Simon Norton. The subject of the book Simon: The Genius in my Basement. Brilliant Mathematician. Doesn’t care about others. Such extremes are rare but popular in the media.)
And it’s not just reading, etc. Interacting can help a lot too. That’s one of the reasons I come here. I gotta be interactive. But it backfires all too often. Look what’s going on in the other Aspie thread. That one has a lot more anti-Asperger stuff going on.
It’s one thing trying to deal with people who don’t get you. It’s another when people are hostile and proud of it.
Yes, because not realizing that you are coming off as hostile has nothing to do with a mental disorder that makes people not be able to understand the complexities of nonverbal communication… :rolleyes:
Seriously, it’s not complicated to understand an Aspie, and the fact that so many people continue to make assumptions that only make sense with NT people is in fact a flaw in being neurotypical. At least, I choose to believe that than the idea that you are intentionally picking on ftg.
The idea that ftg is intending to be hostile is ridiculous, as evidenced by the actual text. The idea that a “hint” would somehow tell them something when they obviously can’t figure out that they are perceived as hostile is ridiculous. And getting mad at someone who accidentally does something you don’t like is ridiculous.
BTW, ftg, since I’m not sure how well you understand NTs yet, I shall go ahead and explain what happened. What he is getting at is that your style of conversation is coming off as hostile because you’re talking about problems with NTs as if they are the ones with a disorder, which is perceived as an insult (don’t ask me to explain why–I just observe) And then he is extrapolating to assume that you always talk like this, even though expressing hostility in words and in speech are completely different. Because he is thinking of you as an NT, and, in NTs, those two behaviors are correlated.
He’s also insulting you because of it. Hence my response–I have promised to try to inform people on Aspie behavior after another Aspie was attacked repeatedly on this board.
You’ve called NT’s inflexible in this thread. So by your own logic, you’re an inflexible person.
Technically what he said is that every neurotypical person is deceptive and deceitful, inflexible, a failure at communicating, socially inappropriate, with no interest in trying to understand other people. All this in spite of the fact that virtually all people are neurotypical (99+%). We’re correctly understand him to be very insulting. I’m sure he has no problem acknowledging he was being deliberately insulting.
Fuzzy Dunlop is extremely typical in this regard. Extremely typical.
Happy Lendervedder has a different meaning of the word “logic” than I am familiar with.
On the inflexibility thing, let me give you an example of what happens to me on a regular basis. I (F) am meeting with a superior (S).
S: I want you to solve X using Y.
F: But that will mess up A and B and then we can’t do C at all. How about Y1?
S: No, use Y.
F: How about Y2? Not nearly as good, but still can salvage some stuff.
S: No, use Y.
F: Why? I don’t understand.
S: Geez, FtG, will you stop being so inflexible here. What is your problem?
Note that I offer alternatives, S doesn’t. S has some reason for using Y, but will never tell me. (Later I will find it it’s for political reasons: getting back at some one, preventing another person from doing their job, etc.) When someone starts accusing me of being inflexible, despite me repeatedly coming up with alternative while the other person refuses to suggest any compromise is just an argumentative trick. And a bad one at that.
You will notice that the comments on me being inflexible in this thread aren’t all that different in mentality.
So when I say that someone is or is not inflexible I mean: A flexible person considers alternatives and suggests using them. An inflexible person is stuck on one preset plan and refuses to deviate.
If this isn’t part of your definition of flexible/inflexible, then we are not going to be able to communicate.
Again note the other Aspie thread that was started recently and how many abusive comments were leveled at Aspies based on prejudice and stereotypes.
You know, don’t you, that transferring your own bad qualities to others is one of the privileges of rank?
Thank you for posting that, you saved me the trouble. I almost wish people would just flat out say “look I am the boss and that is that” so I could just move on, hell just call rank but don’t have unspoken rules.
Except usually people will just say you are stupid, not inflexible.
This isn’t really an example of inflexibility. It’s an example of a person with a superior position. You aren’t always owed an explanation when you’re a peon.
Unspoken rules are how human societies operate. And it’s not an Aspergers issue. Anyone moving from one cultural group to another might have to learn a new set of unspoken rules.
And, I’d like to take this opportunity to turn the tables on the litany of annoyances. The term “neurotypical” annoys me. It seem to imply that being a normal, fully functioning, properly socialized human being is some sort of condition or defect. I’m not “neurotypical.” I’m “normal.”
I believe that is a bit of tongue in cheek, that is the impression I get anyway. A fair bit of the AS community views it as a personality type or normal spectrum of humanity, rather than a disorder or disability.
Now see a normal person would have told you see how it feels sucker! 
I took an online autism spectrum test today and got a 2. I believe I got a 4 when I took one a few years ago. Obviously nobody is ever going to bother administering a professional assessment of me. So, yes, guilty as charged. I’m *extremely *neurotypical and proud of it.
So why do people go easier on those with labels? Well or at least they are differently treated? While another person who has the exact same presentation but no label gets no such consideration?
I’m not even sure I like that, I certainly would not like to be known as the sperg guy, everyone tailor your responses to the sperg, ugh.
Before anyone points out I started this thread, this was venting and griping nothing more.
The problem is that it’s not often possible to detect people with AS until you’ve had several exchanges which resulted in them saying something seemingly rude, which makes most people feel unwilling to try harder to understand. Besides this, people with AS obviously have far more experience of dealing with people without it than vice versa.
ftg is clearly trying to be antagonistic.
You’re describing bosses here, not “NTs”, as we’re apparently calling them. Besides, the meaning of “flexible” can vary according to the situation. Flexible to a boss means you accommodate them. No one likes it when bosses act this way, and no one likes it when they refuse to explain themselves. But that’s what they do. And no doubt if/when you’re in charge of people there will be times when you simply cannot be bothered to explain yourself to someone who doesn’t need to know about it either.
Maybe you’re failing to appreciate the true nature of language. There is far more meaning than just the basic definitions of the words in the order laid out. And in general it works just fine the way it is, if you can understand it and use it. You can argue about it but a colourblind person might as well argue traffic lights are stupid because they can’t tell when to go and when to stop.
It doent imply that you have a condtion - just that you’re in the normal range, whereas aspies are exceptional (not average).
I believe that the phrase “neurotypical”, or anything similar, as commonly used by aspies (or by any other “non-neuro-typical”) is actually a term on contempt, the implication being that neurotypicals are jerks.
However, many of us neuro-atypicals understand that only as a gratuitous show of authority. We can’t process the boss’ level of stress or how thin s/he may be stretched. All we know is s/he can’t be bothered to explain. From there, it’s either a personal issue with hi/r or a personal issue with us - and neither is really within our capability to address.
Is a proficiency at building strawman arguments one of the side benefits of Asperger syndrome, or is it just a unique talent of yours?