Thinking Out Loud: A Conservative Debates Bush With Himself.

So, Chicago Faucet, now that we are into an election year, what is your opinion on President Bush thus far?

During a time of increased terrorism against Americans, he is opening up the borders to make it easier for illegal immigrants to enter our country and stay. Perhaps he was trying to do away with this problem by making something that was previously illegal, now legal. You know, if it’s not illegal, then it can’t be that bad anymore. While most of these immigrants are hard working individuals, who can contribute to our society, I doubt that Bush would have done this on his own. So he was probably influenced by the politicians around him in a campaign year. I also doubt the sound logic of this decision during a time when natural Americans are fighting to hold on to their jobs. Productivity will go up and costs will go down, but the value of what we are making will fall. It’s good to ration out what other people want, then the value stays high. Slight minus.

He was only in office for 8 months before the largest attack on American soil ever occured. He didn’t lose his cool. Instead he mobilized the finest military the world has ever seen and pretty much crippled Al Qaeda, capturing three quarters of Al Qaeda higher-ups, and infiltrated their network. But they are still a threat because too many resources were diverted to Iraq. While I don’t condone invading other countries, this was obviously a two pronged fork: retribution, and preemptively stall any further attempts of the same magnitude of attack. The country and our way of life is safer because of it. Big plus.

He has also accomplished the largest government sponsored medical plan ever. While this was a smart political move to overshadow the Democrats at their own game, without so much as a single muscle flexed, it only slides us further down the slippery slope that FDR started us on. From now on, people will think that it is their right to retire at 65 and have all of their medical expenses taken care of. Big minus.

The deficits that he is incurring are some of the largest ever. However, most of that deficit went to two very important subjects: war on terrorism and an economic stimulus. The tax cut for the economic stimulus is already showing results. The third quarter of 2003 saw a growth of eight percent, the highest in a decade. Taxes are lower than ever, and I will have the largest tax refund in my adult professional life thus far. I will use that money to pay off debt and to invest. While terrorism isn’t defeated, the war on terrorism is equivalent to the war on drugs. This will go on indefinitely, with mixed long term results. In short, the amount of money that the US has spent so far will pale in comparison to amount that will have to be spent over the next decade, and beyond. Slight plus.

One unexpected benefit of the war on terrorism so far is that we have definitely made our point clear to the other nations around the globe, and we are starting to see the reaping in Iran, Syria, and Libya of the seeds that we sowed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Slight plus, eventhough I see it as unintentional.

We went to war in Iraq. The end result was that Saddam Hussein is now in captivity, along with three quarters of Iraqi higher ups, and his two sons are dead. The peace in Iraq is touch and go for the time being, but I am optimistic that a free republic will surface from the chaos. Slight plus.

But President Bush’s credibility is in question over the matter of the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. First this was a foregone conclusion that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and then the very opposite was the given truth. Now we are stuck somewhere in between as the possibility of these weapons being smuggled to somewhere else is being investigated, and the intelligence is being rechecked. The two Presidential Administrations before the current Administration all told us that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. For that matter, so did the UN, France, Germany, and Russia. If nine out of ten dentists recommend it… A majority of the UN sanctions were broken by Iraq under the rule of Saddam Hussein. Hmmm. Tough one. Could go either way. Your critics say that the weapons of mass destruction were simply a means to an end. Well, the whole means of the end was to remove Saddam Hussein from power. That was accomplished. Still, this is a break even, especially since it is still unresolved.

President Bush, after even thing was sifted, I give you a big plus on your job so far. I believe that I will vote for you again.

I went through similar thought processes when examining Bush, and to an even greater extent, his opposition.

See, I don’t like Bush all that much. Fiscally liberal and socially conservative? Please! But, then, I don’t see much better from his opponents… either they say “I’m not Bush!” and thus automatically win support from the Noisy Minority, or they say “I’m more Bushy than Bush!” (Dean’s proposal to increase Homeland Security spending?), in which case there’s not much point in going for someone else.

As for the spending issues… well, after an unprecedented attack on the economic center of the planet, I imagine monies are gonna get a little haywire. The economy took a shitter, but then, everybody knew that was gonna happen. It boggles the mind that the opponents of Bush would criticize him for increased spending when they know that’s what helps stimulate the crappy economy (which they also criticize him for). Basically, my biggest gripe with Bush can be traced directly back to a handful of psychotic Muslims that pulled off a psychotic act at the behest of a psycho.

As for my second biggest gripe - the illegal alien licensing - I just know that any of the other candidates also would’ve folded in to this one. Hey, politics is a crappy business. I’d love to get all idealistic and all, but frankly, I just can’t work up the righteous indignation.

Is there any actual debate here, or is this just a bunch of resident conservatives speaking into an echo chamber in an attempt to persuade themselves that they’re picking Bush over a “logical” “analysis” of his “performance”?

I mean, Bush could announce on live TV tomorrow night that he does whatever the voices in his head tell him to, and that he lied about Iraqi WMDs because he thought it would be funny, and you two wouldn’t change your votes for him anyway. So why bother with the charade?

Some of your reasoning is good, but you are unlikely to learn anything debating with yourself.

But the question we have is whether we needed to create a revenue/outlays gap of (between tax cuts and increased spending) a few trillion dollars over the next 10 years in order to stimulate the economy. I have no problem with running a deficit during a time of recession but what he has created is a structural deficit that noone can figure out how to get rid of…at least if the tax cuts are made permanent and the alternative minimum tax are reformed (see CBO’s projections for that case, as discussed here by the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities (see also here). And, this is done at a when we approaching the time when a lot of baby boomers retire and we will have to stop using the social security trust fund surplusses to subsidize the rest of the government.

It just amazes me that people who claim to give a flying shit about fiscal responsibility can just shrug this off!

Well, I don’t think I have the patience to deal point-by-point with the bizarrely twisted logic the OP used to evaluate Bush’s pluses and minuses. Among other things, his interpretation of the guest worker program strikes me as seriously off the mark, he seems to consider the rush to invade Iraq, which had next to nothing to do with the WTC attack, as an example of Bush not losing his cool, salutes Bush for putting through a medical plan that the OP actually seems to think will be bad for the country in the long run, and finds an enormous deficit resulting from a convergence of voter-baiting tax cuts, a “war on terror” with no known horizon and what turned out to be a mostly pointless invasion of Iraq to somehow be a “slight plus”.

Frankly, the OP would have saved himself and us a whole lot of time if he simply admitted that he’s going to vote for Bush based mainly on party ideology, and that the man’s record makes no particular difference to him.

I, for one, am extremely interested in listening to how self-identified conservatives perceive Bush, and how they view the pros and cons his record thus far, even if I may strongly disagree with their reasoning.

Please continue.

Did you miss the “plus” and “minus” part? The OP wasn’t a Bush love-fest. You could have saved yourself a whole lot of time by not clicking on the thread since the title was perfectly descriptive of the content.

I concur with Chicago Faucet’s thoughts, btw.

I don’t pay much attention when Bush supporters affirm that they are going to vote for him again. Bush has to retain all the votes he had in 2000, plus he must convince some people who voted for Gore then to vote for him now. This is going to be the most closely scrutinized election in history, so Bush had better stop counting on another Florida Fluke. Show me all the Gore voters that are voting Bush this time; show me the dearth of dissatisfied Bush voters that are now out of work, and looking for a better answer. Until then, the OP is simply another Republican whistling past the graveyard.

Regarding the OP

I didn’t realize that Bush opened up the borders, but I’ll take your word for it. I thought he was legitimizing immigrants that already did cross. But that doesn’t matter. Its a very big plus. Most Hispanics outside of Miami Cuban community and maybe a few in Texas, hate the GOP. Maybe enough of their family members that are legal and do vote may succumb to this pandering and he’ll pick up a few votes. In a tight race, every vote that’s counted counts. PLUS GRANDE.

Post 9/11, Bush did a fantastic job of rallying the world. Global pro-Americanism was at an all time high post W.W.II. I know that Bush agrees with you about invading other countries, he said so in the presidential debates, something along the lines of we will not get into the business of nation building or something like that, but he was only talking about Kosovo. Halibuton’s bottom line is looking good and what’s good for them is good for us. Flag sales are up too. The bumper sticker industry is thriving. DOUBLE PLUS.

This Medicare overhaul is absolutely brilliant. Buying our drugs form Canada is utterly un-American. He’s protecting our seniors from having to worry about the quality of drugs from our war hating neighbors to the north. And forbidding price negotiations on drugs adds stability to a volatile industry. Sooner or later, our seniors will realize what a great deal this is, or they’ll die. And he pulled it off with the illusion of beating Democrats at their own game. TWO AND A HALF PLUSES.

The Bush deficits aren’t some of the largest in history, they are the largest in history. But who cares? This generation isn’t going to pay for them. But you’re not thinking like a republican when you say you’re going to use your new found wealth on paying off debt. Debt is good. More debt is better. Spend it at Walmart. You hit the nail on the head comparing the war on terror to the war on drugs. We’re seeing the exact bang for the buck on each. We’ve done such a good job killing off al Qaeda that we’re canceling flights out of Europe into the US this weekend. QUADRUPLE PLUS

The seeds we’ve sewn in Afghanistan and Iraq are starting germinate. Syria and Iran are already planning on dedicating monuments to us right next to their mosques. There’s serious talk about reunification on the Korean peninsula. And nobody’s been blown up in Iraq in at least the past 8 seconds. A free democratic unified stable Iraq is just around the corner. We should have our boys and girls home by the Fourth of July. PLUSSES OUT THE ASS.

Bush’s credibility on WMDs in question? Dare say? Are you French? A certain fellow by the name of John Ashcroft is going to want to look into you and your computer, phone and library card. Better be a little more careful in the future. And if nine out of ten dentists say you better get the world on your side… Anyway, wee don’t need no steenkeng permission slips. Saddam’s caught and that’s all that matters. The US has a long history of supporting the UN and its sanctions. We did those foreigners at the UN a big favor and they don’t even realize it. MULTIPLICATION SIGNS.

I think you should vote for him too.

"Nothing is more important in the face of a war than cutting taxes."
-Tom Delay, The New York Times, 4-3-03

I think that pretty well sums it up for me. The man is a maniac IMHO, and his fiscal policies are a nightmare. Even my dad, who IS a fiscal conservative thinks they guy is a loose canon, but he’s still voting for Bush because of party afiliation. I’m working on him and my wife, but so far they won’t budge, inspite of the fact that they are both aware that his policies are dead against fiscal conservativism.


Here’s an examination of republican tea leaves from the New Hampshire primary:

Bush Slips–Among Republicans

The second-place finisher in the NH GOP primary? John Kerry.

Don’t mean shit about Bush’s real support, though, obviously.

I agree. Plenty of Bush’s supporters would have stayed home during the primaries, confident in his ability to win a one-man race.

Still, I’m always happy to hear about Bush losing support, from any angle.

I rarely, rarely do “Good one” posts, but I’ll spend my annual reserve on you, E72521. Your post cracked me UP!

We now return you to blah blah blah