By Major Feelgud’s logic, perhaps we should also dismantle the system of pensions and medical benefits in the USA, limits on working time for airline pilots and railroaders, and minimum wages.
Why not? All these things do is add to the cost of doing business.
As stated previously, it is much easier to be unconcerned about low third-world wages if you don’t have to get by on them.
Major Feelgud-lick my tampon. You are a the biggest fucking dumbass I’ve met on this board so far. Can we say TROLL?
Yeah, maybe to them, fifty cents is a lot of money. Well, guess what? You wanna hear the story my professor told us about the woman from Latin America (forget which country), who, upon trying to join a union, was taken into the woods, tortured, stripped and while my teacher didn’t tell us the details, he did say she could never have children again. All because she wanted to join a fucking union.
It’s brutal down there and frankly, it’s not fucking worth it.
Major Feelgud-yeah, I’m naive. If you call naive not believing that children should have to work in Dickensian workshops for pennies a day just to earn a little bit of money to bathe in a polluted river and to live to the age of 25 only to contract cholera and die, yeah, then I guess I’m naive.
Go squick a dead raccoon and felch a syphilitic goat.
BTW, Major Feelgud-these are the LUCKY kids…the majority of young girls help out the family by becoming prostitutes just as they hit puberty-mostly likely before for some.
The boys sell drugs and become criminals.
Yeah, my kind of country!
:rolleyes:
Guin, please be so kind as to study up on issues relating to the formation of American labor unions a century ago and get back to us. I agree that factory conditions in developing countries are less than desirable, but so is the standard of living. They need to make their missteps as they develop the same that we did.
I do wish their factory conditions were on a par with ours, but I also think putting American values and mores on another culture is disingenuous. Those factories pay their employees more than a living wage - that is why the locals want to work there. When people stop wanting to work there the factories will straighten up.
BTW, insulting Major Feelgud because you disagree with the views expressed isn’t going to win you any points; it’s also a logical fallacy, something else you should be learning in your college classes. If you don’t like the arguments attack the argment, not the arguer.
Well, he started it!
(JUST KIDDING)
But this is the Pit, and if someone’s going to say that I’m a stupid fuck, well, I’m gonna give it right back.
No, as far as a living wage-then how come most of them have little to nothing to eat and live in apalling conditions?
I’m not suggesting we pressure American values and culture on them. When did I say that? What I said was that the US corporate bigwigs shouldn’t exploit them as cheap labor sources to make themselves rich. No where did I say we should take up the idea of the White Man’s Burden. We should stop trying to control their economy. And if you think the US isn’t involved in anything like that well, you’ve got another think coming.
I mean, come on. Where do you think all those nice cheap goods you buy at Walmart are made?
Not in the US. No, they’re usually made in some 3rd World Country where the working conditions are appalling. Frankly, I don’t think it’s being arrogant to ask that the seven year old making my tennis shoes be allowed to go to the bathroom once every 14 hours…
Is it just me or does this sig get more and more ironic and funny every time she opens her SDMB mouth?
First, are you good looking?
Second, the reason why that is happening is because of their corrupt and inept government. I wrote a post on this but was lost when the boards went down for maintenance. Your initial rant was on us exploiting them but that’s not what’s wrong over there.
Anyway, your story again has a healthy dose Urban Legendism in it. Who took her into the woods? Who tortured her?
If there is a union there, that implies some law and order, and whoever raped her could be punished.
But if whoever did that to her could get away with it, then I can guarantee you that they could do the same to the Union, i.e. kill and torture the leaders etc. Therefore there would be no Union. Therefroe your story doesn’t make sense.
Our government usually has a hand in their government. It’s called Corporatism.
I’m too lazy to haul ass upstairs to see what my textbook is called, but I’ll get it to you. As far as Urban Legend-who’s being naive now? YOu don’t think that kind of shit goes on? As for getting punished-HA! Naive naive naive, as you said to me. There’s shit like that going on all over the world, everyday.
I’ll talk to my professor-I’ll see him on Tuesday-and ask him for the information.
And aw, hell, I’ll get my book.
Ah, here we go:
Modern Latin America: Fifth Addition by Thomas E. Skidmore and Peter H. Smith.
The Second Century: US-Latin American Relations Since 1889 by Mark T. Gilderhus.
In fact, here’s a little tidbit: if we had kept out of Cuba after the Spanish American War, Castro probably wouldn’t be in charge there today.
Sorry to post twice, but I found a good source:
In chapter ten of the Skidmore and Smith book, there is a section called Guatemala: Reaction and Repression.
I’ll read it tonight and let you know what I find.
You stupid shit. Now you answered your own stupid rant. Those were the lucky kids. NIKE and the big corps gave them a way out of the squalor and do something with their lives. No wonder they choose to work for 50cents an hour.
If you can shut your stupid mouth and really want to do something to help, instead of ranting against the US, you should go and change their corrupt governments. They are ones allowing little girls to become prostitutes not the US, not big US corps.
NIKE and the big corps are already helping. By feeding in money, and believe me, the officials are getting more than 50cents/hour, they’re going to have to put up some semblance of law and order so 1st world countries will invest there.
I hate stupid little ignorant activists like you. Just a big mouth with no brain behind it. Willing to take up every little cause without even thinking.
Every country had child labor, even the US and the UK. We changed, but we didn’t change in a day, neither can those 3rd world countries. It takes an educated population, it takes money, it takes time. It’s happening, slowly, inevitably, whether you want it to or not. Least of all, but it’s not going to change because of stupid ignorant idiots like you.
Guin, if I may step over to the dark side for a moment:
In my experience real working conditions in third world countries do not quite reach the extremes described to you by your college professor. While the incidents you describe have certainly occurred, they are not universal, nor are local labor necessarily slaves toiling under appalling conditions to support the giant consumption machines of the USA and Europe.
[/dark side]
Nevertheless, I can’t agree with some of the other posters that an American company’s responsibility to its foreign workers necessarily ends at paying them the average wage prevailing in their location. While the question can be tricky, I don’t think that having the options of electricity, refrigeration, sewage treatment, a reasonable standard of medical care and the ability for much of the population to live beyond age 45 is in any way “imposing American view and mores” upon the rest of the world. At $1,500/year of income per capita, many of these conveniences remain unavailable. While companies could claim that they already support the local economy, and infrastructure improvements, through the payment of business taxes, in many countries most of these monies seem to go directly into the pockets of local politicians and military commanders, and never benefits anyone else.
Please don’t think I am suggesting that the USA is somehow responsible for the self-made ills of the countries in which Amercan companies may operate. What I am suggesting, however, is that many of these companies could do a bit more to share the wealth, especially when it can be done directly through worker salaries.
Sorry if this is not hot-headed enough for the Pit. I’d be happy to tell someone to fuck off if that would help.
Just because they’re the lucky ones doesn’t make their lives less miserable.
And oh yes, the US is sooo good and great.
Please. They have a major hand in it all. I’m not a conspiracy theorist. But come on! Who’s being naive now?
I wish you could sit in on one of my classes. You’d see so much fucking injustice it would make your head spin. The fact is, everyone talks about how great America is because they broke away from those opressors, the British.
If you’ve ever studied history, you’ll see-the colonists had it pretty damn good compared to most.
That’s right! Read your textbook before posting any more.
Sure, stuff like that goes on. But if people can rape with impunity, they’re not going to need an excuse like a union to do it. Do you see what I’m getting at? That’s why it’s an Urban Legend. And it’s got nothing to do with “us exploiting them”.
You can tell me to fuck off, Rocket, I’m kewl with it. 
No, I"m not saying America is totally responsible, nor is it that extreme everywhere. However, my professor’s specialty is Latin America-and not ALL of it is like that. He’s talking about the really bad areas.
I just don’t see how some people can be so naive as to think we’re this great, benevolent power who helps everyone fight opression and injustice. The US isn’t any better or worse than any other major power. It’s simply seeing reality, I think.
Did I say they just raped her? They did more than that.
There was no union-the people were trying to start one, and the military strong arms came in and busted some asses. This woman was the only one left alive. As I said, she was a woman who was involved in one of the groups my professor works with-he didn’t name names, which I don’t blame him, as this is a privacy issue. Nor am I trying to spread an urban legend-I’m simply talking about an example of the kinds of things people witness.
Once again-just because 50 cents is considered a lot of money over there does not mean it’s a great wage. When people cannot afford decent medical care, food, shelter, clothing and adequate, comfortable living arrangments, something is fucked up. If that makes me a communist to think that everyone should have a right to a comfortable life, so be it.
Dammit, I’m becoming such a fucking bleeding heart anymore.
Yes, but we have nothing to do with it.
Sure, there is a lot of fucking injustice in this world. You’re being fucking naive when you complain against it. I come across fucking injustice everyday. It’s fucking human nature. I could rant against my ISP which I’m planning to talk to our State Attorney General about. I could rant about my fucking landlord who is charging our building maintenance which they are not doing.
But your initial rant was against us exploiting them. Please stick to the subject.
You’re like a priviledged kid growing up in a rich household and think that everyone else should drive a Mercedes-Benz, otherwise it’s unfair.
Fuck you. The US is a great benevolent power. I’m a 1st generation immigrant. Why the fuck do you think people immigrate here and not Pakistan or Guatemala? There are malevolent people in this country just like any other, but the system is supposed to be just and there is an expectation that the system should be just.
You are naive, little girl.
What the hell do you mean, I’m naive because I rail against injustice? Isn’t that what a decent person does? Should I just turn my head and pretend it doesn’t happen? Or should I try and do something about it? No, I’m not saying that my ranting about it is helping them, persay. But I’m sure as hell not going to keep my mouth shut when I think people should be aware of this. I think it’s important to know what’s going on.
For that matter, I didn’t say the US was SOLELY at fault.
However, they played a big fucking part in the economy over there, especially in Cuba. They were partly responsible.
The words dependency, neocolonialism and corporatism play a big part in this.
BTW, just curious, have you ever taken a course on Latin America?
And Guin, if it was some other country paying 50cents to “exploit” another country’s poor, I guarantee you that there’s not going to be any NIKE or Kathy Lee type exposee. That’s how benevolent the US is.
Did I say everyone should be rich? And how the fuck do you know if I’m rich or not? By most standards, I’m far from it! I don’t drive a mercedes. However, why shouldn’t a child in some impoverished country be able to have a fucking drink of water that’s not from a polluted river?
You remind me of the big boss who says, “Someone should have to suffer so I can be rich.” Fuck you. Fuck all OVER you if you think that’s right. Excuse me for thinking that a child shouldn’t starve or have rickets and skurvy and polio.
Excuse me for thinking people should have enough to eat. Excuse me for thinking that these were basic human rights that everyone was entitled to. I didn’t know eating and simply being able to live without worrying about cholera and typhoid was a fucking PRIVILEDGE. I didn’t know that going to bed with a stomach hurting from hunger pangs was just something you had to fucking deal with.
“If I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. If I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.”
There is nothing wrong with having money. Nothing wrong at all-I’d like to be rich too. However, I don’t think that means I can get what I want at the expense of others. Nor do I think it’s being naive or a moron to believe that people should have enough food to eat.
Fuck if this isn’t a proper debate-this is the Pit. I hope I"m not too out of line, but this is pissing me off.