Since I started coming to this board, I’ve seen a lot of anti-military hate. This has ranged from criticism of the administrations polices (fair and rational) to accusations that all servicemembers are psychopathic criminals (which I think is a little unfair). I’ll also lay my cards on the table and tell you that I’m military and I’ve done two years in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. There’s a LOT of things I think are screwed up about those wars, but I’d like to limit my premise to just one topic.
The US of A, through their representatives, decided that these wars were Bright Ideas. You, the taxpayer, paid me to go over there and shoot people. At the same time, you express moral outrage at the wars and revulsion at the immorality of shooting people. You want us to fight the enemy, but you don’t want us to hurt their feelings when we do it. You want us to win the war, but you don’t want us to exacerbate it. You tell us that victory is desirable but question our sanity when we express joy.
So my question for America is: WTF?
Why do you pay me to do something and then get mad at me for doing the thing you paid me to do?
Simple answer is that not everyone was in favor of those actions. Not everyone in the government voted in favor of them, not all members of the general public are in favor of them and I’m willing to bet that not all members of the armed forces are in favor of them.
And the individual taxpayer doesn’t get to say where their particular dollars are spent - so those folks opposed to any given war (or any government policy/expenditure) are in fact paying for it against their will.
That’s part of living in a democracy - sometimes we do things as a nation that not everybody wants (generally it’s just a majority) and that everybody has to pay for.
Not all members of this board are American either. Example, me, proudly Pakiatani.
FTR what exactly do you think is “screwed up” about the wars. Humour me.:rolleyes:
FYI: A recent poll conducted by Yours Truly indicates that over 30% of people that participated in said poll have been or are currently in the service, which is more than three times the national average.
There is no “you”. The United States is made up of 315 million people, there’s no unity on anything, especially not emotionally-charged topics like warfare. The people who support the current wars aren’t the same ones who are mad at you.
Well I will be the people on this board who have called soldiers psychopaths are a VERY small minority. One which does not understand what “psychopath” means, for starters.
But yeah, I was opposed to Iraq and for Afghanistan, though I think setting up a puppet regime and sticking around was dumb. Afghanistan is highly resistant to invaders, and that’s what we were. Just stomp the Taliban hard and get out would have been enough, I think.
Iraq was a total fuckup, a war started under false pretenses. I don’t blame the soldiers, but I’d LOVE to see Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld subjected to war crimes trials in the Hague for what they did.
Because most of us have no experience of war. Some people (far too many people) think it’s just like in the movies and some people think it’s a bunch of psychopaths running around killing one another. Some of us look at war only from the global strategic standpoint and some of us look at it only from the standpoint of how it affects our families. Most of us are in between those extremes (I think). But the military consumes a large part of our wealth and not a few lives of our citizens so it would be unreasonable for us to not question what we get collectively, even if our questions appear ignorant to those who practice war professionally.
I didn’t think we should invade Iraq. Plenty of people thought we should, including a huge majority of our leaders, so we did. The beauty of being free is that I can keep questioning that decision.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to, but this could be read as an attempt to excuse the various instances of abhorrent and inexcusable conduct that are well-known by now, and are blatant violations of the laws of war or the ethical standards of the armed forces. Perhaps you should clarify what you meant here.
I don’t think anyone can disagree that the men and women of the armed forces have among the most highly respected professions in this country, and I think there’s a very good reason for that. But “held in very high esteem by a great majority of Americans” is not the same as “unanimous admiration.” Don’t take it so hard that not everyone likes your job: it isn’t like you’re a lawyer or a used car salesman.
I was a soldier and spent two years in Iraq. Frankly, if after your service you don’t have some serious criticisms for the military, its goals, methods, budget and leadership, you weren’t looking.
Also, “America” isn’t a person. Don’t expect it to act like one, except maybe a psychopath with 330 million personalities. The people who said the wars were “Bright Ideas” weren’t the same as the people expressing moral outrage at them. The people who wanted to turn Iraq into a glass parking lot weren’t the same people who wanted to spare the Iraqis’ feelings (that’s a new one to me by the way). I hope that clears up your confusion.
The former isn’t “anti-military hate” in any way and the latter, I suspect, derives from a single person on this board whose shtick is childish hyperbole. Got any examples for reference?
But I don’t think that’s what the OP is asking about. His main question seems to be about people who think soldiers are psychopaths; not why some people who oppose the war but support the troops get criticized for being unpatriotic.
Personally I’m opposed to the extent to which “support the troop” sentiment is publicly expressed in the US. I consider it to be part of the pro-war propaganda. I suspect that is part of what the OP is asking about.
His main question seems to be why there is a divergence of opinions on the military in America. And the GQ answer to that is because there are 330 million Americans with roughly independent viewpoints, not just a single, cohesive opinion.
But there’s also the fact that Budweiser and Tim McGraw are lying to you. There is not a widespread core of unquestioning, gung-ho soldier love in the heartland. There is quite a disturbing amount, to be sure, and transparent efforts by the media to prop it up and expand it. But the wars, torture, civilian killings and dismantling of the Bill of Rights is really starting to bum people out. Maybe the OP is just now figuring out that it isn’t 2002 anymore?
I’d probably be more prone to give the troops a pass if I thought the wars were just and in the best interest of the nation and the world. I once supported the Afghan war but have changed my mind- in my opinion we should have just lobbed some missiles at the Talban and called it a day.
When you slaughter entire families of civilians or descrate the corpses of enemies, you lose my support in a hurry. Perhaps you personally did not commit these atrocities, but plenty of your brethren did. We aren’t paying you to “kill people”, we’re paying you to attack military targets.
solosam, you say you served in Iraq and Afghanistan. What was your motivation for joining? To seek vengeance for 9/11? To be honored and glorified on your return? What were your goals and did you achieve them?
Why not condemn only “the brethren” who commit these crimes? They are a small minority of the military. Seems rather medieval to condemn a whole class of people based on the actions of a few.
