This is why I hire a reputable plumber to do my work.
I had no idea the items in Home Despot and Lowes were not made to the same specs as the items in specialty supply stores, though. I guess I should have after my brother showed me the difference in lumber quality between the Lowes and where he gets lumber for his job.
Thanks for the heads-up, danceswithcats.
I have a friend who manufactures Cheap Plastic Household Items ™ for Walmart and other retailers. They pretty much tell them that they pay for what they sell. If you sell them a hundred plastic sippy cups and customers only buy 50, they tell you to come and get the other 50 and don’t pay you for them. That’s part of the way they keep their costs down. They try to only stock stuff that moves.
Sure, but that has nothing to do with **danceswithcats’ ** claim.
You can’t compare lumber quality to items that are ‘made to specs’. No one yet has been able to substantiate the claim that those items are intentionally made to lower specs.
Lumber varies in quality and its well known this is so. It is graded to well-defined and understood standards. So if your brother is getting better quality lumber, he is probably paying a little more.
Generally speaking, the lumber at a big-box store tends to be a bit higher quality than the same grade lumber not sold to the general public. This is because the typical customer at a big box will hand pick his lumber and leave anything that is not perfect. The big box retailer will not be able to sell a slightly warped (but still in-grade) piece. A large-volume buyer, on the other hand, won’t be quite as picky (they buy too much to hand pick and can find a use for less than perfect pieces anyway.)
El Zagna read this article. It more than backs up any claim against Wal-Mart in that respect.
Buying things, no matter what they are, comes with a risk. You take the chance that it’ll break, be defective, or not be a fit to your specific need or project. It doesn’t matter if that item comes from Home Depot, The Great Indoors, or a specialty plumbing house. I’ve done a LOT of home repair, and I’ve come to know what to spend the big money on, and where to save it. A great example of this is Rolls Royce Silver Spur.
Often, initial cost is no indicator of how long, or how well things will work, only how much you’ll pay to find out.
I can’t provide an exact cite for what you just mentioned, but I will note that if you try walk into your local Wal-Mart, you’ll see a variety of tires made by major-brand players that are similar to the regular tire product lines, but not EXACTLY the same.
You might miss the difference, but there are Michelin products sold by Wal-Mart and Sam’s Club that are the same as regular market Michelin Symmetry tires, except for the actual product and a digit at the end of the model.
I would imagine that Home Depot does the same thing.
There’s probably an “American Standard Plebe Retail” model and an “American Standard Plebe OEM Contractor Model”.
The computer industry does the exact same thing with CD-RWs.
The retail package for a particular CD drive includes a drive with a slick, shiny plastic front, a data cable included and some software.
The OEM package (sold to system builders and service guys through the wholesale channel) has a drive with a dull, flat plastic front, no data cable and no software.
I’m familiar with the article you cite. It’s well written, insightful, and often referred to on these boards when Wal-Mart’s tactics come up, however I don’t see where it addresses the claim in question. What is at issue here is the claim that Wal-Mart and other big box stores get manufacturers* to make make products under different specs but market them at other outlets under the same product line and name*.
Is this anything at all like leaving a floater?
Bought some studs at HD just last week that were great, best I had seen anywhere… If I could have thunked up a use, I wouold have bought more. I have no idea why they had these, but I was glad.
Bought any grade 8 bolts lately?
I am not fully buying Dances’ explanation of QC differentials in identical products sold by the same brand in different outlets with the same part numbers/labeling, Etc. I just find it hard to believe, though coming from a position of ignorance in the plumbing department, I don’t know how to research this particular “factoid”.
It’s not that I don’t believe you, per se, Dances, it’s just that it’s a hard-to-swallow truth. Proof would be helpful to take this medicine.
Sam
Real ones, or fake ones? I know a year or two ago, there was a flood of faked G8 bolts on the marketplace coming from Asia wreaking havok in commercial arenas. In fact, judging by the ugly coating(dull and gold instead of a nice shiny CAD coating), on the ones I used to buy from Ace around the corner from my house were probably impostors.
Sam
I have no problem buying it, because of my experiences in the “outdoor power equipment world.”
It’s pretty much accepted that the riding mowers sold at Home Depot that have “good” labels on them (e.g., John Deere) are much lower quality then the equivalents from the same label sold at speciality stores (tractor dealers and places that specialize in commercial landscaping operations). In fact, the independent dealers often advertise that the models they sell are not the same as the equivalent big-box model.
Did Dances actually state that the EXACT same model/part number was being filled with different product at different retail outlets?
I read the post and inferred that the naming of the different products was only the same down to the Make / Model Series level.
To some extent, bolts is bolts. At least if you know bolts, you can look at a lumpy ugly bolt with rolled instead of cut threads and think “this doesn’t look quite right”
But back to goods at HD. I wouldn’t touch their “Americas Pride” or whatever they call it line of plumbing fixtures with *your * ten-foot pole. But, is a Delta faucet at HD going to be any different than a Delta faucet from a pro supply house? Aside from pretty packaging and possibly a more DIY-friendly version of the instructions, is the faucet different? I can’t imagine they’d make a cheapened version and still put a lifetime warranty on it.
Sure, I’ve found what danceswithcats said to be true to a point.
The models numbers are similar but not exact. You’ll have a Standard Toilet model #8795-AF at the BB store and maybe the commercial distributor will have model #8796-AFS, or something like that. They get around price comparisons and price matching this way too.
A lot of things are “pretty much accepted” that are not true. I am not saying that I would not be willing to believe you given proof, certainly if Wal-Mart sells a John Deere Tractor model 39X and the tractor store is selling Model 39A, they are clearly not the same thing, but the claim that has been made is that the 39X tractor you buy from Wal-Mart is made to lower standards than the 39X tractor you buy from the tractor store. Frankly, I have trouble believing this one without a cite.
This is certainly true. But there are plenty of people saying it who have more experience in the market and with the products (both as buyers and sellers) then I do, and I trust them.
Take it for what you will; I really don’t care enough to prove it to you.
I’d like to know if it is legal to sell something as the exact same model in two different stores and yet be selling differnt qualities of similar products?
If only the part number is different, how is a buyer too know what they are buying and to compare prices in a reasonable way. How do I find out which products in a big store are lower quality copies, are which are identical to the same product in a speciality store? And how can I tell that the speciality store isn’t also selling me a poor quality version of a product?
Yeah, this is my problem also.
The article about WalMart tells us all about the chain’s high pressure contracting and the strains it puts on suppliers. It’s a great article. What it never tells us, though, is that Widget 357Xs sold at WalMart is a different product from Widget 357Xs sold at some other store.
Same with Home Depot and Lowes. I’m willing to believe that there are small changes in product ID that differentiate between products sold at big box stores and those sold at small professional outlets. So, i’m willing to believe that Widget357Xs sold at Home Depot is not as good as Widget 357Xs2 sold at Bob’s Professional Plumbing Supplies.
But, as yet, no-one in this thread has given any evidence whatsoever that two ostensibly identical products, with identical names or part numbers, are different when sold at big box stores than they are when sold at smaller professional outlets.
To begin, I respect your skepticism, Weirddave. Let’s analyze the whole equation, as best I can present it.
You’re American Standard-a respected and well-known fixture company with a decent piece of the market. For years you’ve made top quality china, manufactured by American artisans who are well paid for their attention to detail. The only other player equivalent to you is Kohler, and it’s a level playing field-as both your goods and theirs are only sold through plumbing supply houses. The wholesalers have two price lists, one for contractors such as me, and another for Joe Public who is handy enough to manage on his own. Life is good and we all make a buck.
Enter the big box stores. They have buying power in sufficient volume that they can now dictate to you what they want to pay for that piece of china. It’s hard to not want that big a chunk of business, but how do you manage this? What the big box is willing to pay is only a few bucks more than it costs you to manufacture it. If you agree to this model, (a) you’ll lose your shirt (b) the wholesalers will crucify you for undercutting them (c) the tradesmen will be pissed off because you’re screwing them, too. So what do you do?
The answer is a separate line. On the surface it looks like the top quality line your name has been associated with, but your manufacting plant for this line is in another country, where you’re not paying union wages and benefits. The spec has been reduced in terms of quality points, too. You’re saving a few bucks by not glazing the trapway, you shave the wall thickness by a few mm-with a nip here and a tuck there, you meet the price point that the big box demands, you still make a reduced but adequate profit on big box sales, and the wholesalers, your A-line manufacturing personnel, and the tradesmen like me don’t string you up. You have the best of both worlds.
In closing, the only way I can really prove the above is to put two fixtures side by side and let you evaluate them to your own satisfaction. Otherwise, I have to suggest that you trust my expertise after 20+ years of construction related work, and hopefully your knowledge of me as a person that I have better things to do than to blow smoke up your butt. 