I’d be glad to buy stuff from a plumbing supply house. Only they won’t take my money. Most of them (I do know of exceptions) will sell their stock ONLY to licensed plumbers. So if I need a part or something, it’s off to Home Depot.
Hopefully you respect my skepticism as well, Dances. It’s hard to imagine a company like Delta or Moen, or American Standard cheaping out on their products like that. It makes sense in some respects, but why tarnish all those years of quality craftmanship?
I was just told that my brand of hair gel, American Crew, that is available at Target stores and salons is two different products when bought from one or the other source. One is watery and nasty, and the other is nice and thick-just the way I like it.
I’ll accept your explanation of the situation, Dances, but I guess I just want to believe that quality companies that have turned out quality products for generations will continue to do so no matter the outlet for that product.
Sam
True enough. The ones who won’t sell to the public don’t want to be bothered with a separate price list, don’t want to handle cash payments, and don’t want to spend 20 minutes on Joe Homeowner for a $5 sale, while I’m tapping my foot, ready to put $500 on my account in 5 minutes. It’s just a different business model.
Fully respected. Unfortunately, when market forces come to bear, sometimes a company will cheap out just to stay in the game. You and I might not make that decision, but we’re not in the Boardroom.
Well, dances, I remain skeptical.
If American Standard or any other manufacturer is concerned with their reputation, then they must realize that it won’t go unnoticed by the buying public that their product has become inferior. I don’t know what percent of American Standard’s toilets are sold out of the big boxes, but my guess is that it is pretty significant. I even see a lot of professional plumbers getting their stuff from the local Home Depot. The reputation of your product line is based on the entirety of the product sold, not just that through specialty stores.
This implies collusion on the part of the suppliers. I suspect at this point they’d be entering into serious legal violations.
danceswithcats, are you implicitly saying that the exact same model numbered product can be sold in two (or more) different levels of quality?
Example A
885x- from BB = piece of shite
885x- from Distributor = better quality
Example B
885x- from BB = shite
885xe- from distributor = better quality
I’ve seen B but never A. You’ve seen A?
I would be turned on ear if that were the case.
Again, my question, perhaps phrased better. I do trust your experience DWC, but I also know the bias against big box stores that you bring to the table. The master cites a beer taste test that calls into question something that every Canadian living in the U.S. “knows” about imported Canadian beer (Well, all the ones I’ve met seem willing to hold forth at great length on the subject anyway. 
).
No it doesn’t…but it does support your claim of unflattering articles about how Walmart holds down prices, which is what I was referring to.
[QUOTE=El Zagna]
Well, dances, I remain skeptical.
If American Standard or any other manufacturer is concerned with their reputation, then they must realize that it won’t go unnoticed by the buying public that their product has become inferior. QUOTE]
Looking at another industry, consumer electronics, I can give many instances where a highly reputable brand has traded it’s reputation for mass distribution.
Working at BestBuy for many a years I saw them make huge purchasing commitments with what was considered high-end companies that we were very excited about at the store level. However, when we got the product it wasn’t the quality of what that company usually produced.
Examples:
Blaupunkt- Great German made car audio company. When BBY carried their decks they were made in China.
Nakamichi- Great Japanese made home audio product originally. When BBY started to carry them they were made in Korea.
Rockford Fosgate- Was #1 in car audio amps. Amps were so-so when BBY got them.
Klipsch- Superior quality home speakers. The ones that BBY carry don’t compare to their real stuff. It’s their budget line they invented for BBY.
KOSS- The ‘made in Milwaukee’ headphone company used to focus on making world class headphones only. Now they stick their name on multiple audio goods including headphones that are made in China.
It seems as though the hypothesis would be easy enough to check. Buy a toilet at HD and the same one from high end Plumbing Supply Company. Check out the traps to see if the HD one is not glazed and the other one is. If so, game over.
Anyone want to send a letter to Consumer Reports suggesting an investigation?
I worked in the service division for Circuit City and although I never saw the original shipping containers the product came in, I did see the product itself, all the way down to component level. I never saw any variance in product no matter where it came from. And we serviced any brand and model, as long as we had sold it at some point in the past.
So I saw lots of Blaupunkt and everything else that came from high-end audio shops but they were all the same at the component level. Circuit board layouts were always the same, and technical bulletins issued by the manufacturer never specified that modifications were to be applied only to certain sub-models. Whenever I had to order parts from the manufacturer, they were always OEM parts, never generics or substitues.
I have in front of me here the technical service manual for the Sony MXD-D3 combination CD/MD player. It addresses some minor cosmetic and power supply differences between different versions of the model based on the destination country, but not based on the country of manufacture. The manual lists very tight performance specifications such as frequency response, laser output power and wavelength, S:N ratio, etc. If Sony was making substandard CD players in Lower Slobovia for sale at a Wal-Mart near you, there would have to be another set of technical specifications to let me know that, for example, it’s normal in this particular unit for the circuit boards to be held in place by hot glue and twist-ties.
The bottom line after ten years of repairing consumer electronics was always this: The brand and model that most frequently came in for service was the brand and model that had the highest sales. We sold more Sony CD players than any other brand, so of course we serviced more Sony than anything else.
See for yourself. Visit any of your local dollar stores and you’re likely to see 20-packs of familiar-looking copper & black batteries. Only they’re not Duracells but rather Dualcells or something similar; the manufactuer is counting on consumers to not notice until they get home.
Huh?
Are those batteries produced by the same company that makes Duracells, or is it just a different company trying to capitalize on a similar name and color scheme?
If the latter, then it has absolutely nothing to do with what we’ve been discussing.
Then I’ll continue to give the big box stores my money and live with non-glazed traps (however shall I cope? 
), because when it comes to home improvement projects I have WAY more time (for research, taking it slow as I learn, cough doing something over, etc.) then money.
My thought exactly. Furthermore, let’s take example A one step further. You are now the warehouse manager for American Standard. You have 10,000 model 885X toilets in stock. Half of them are the low budget model slated to be sent to the Home Despot.
Pop quiz: How you ensure that the guy running the forklift gets the good toilets to the plumbing supply stores, and the pieces of shit to Home Despot if all 10,000 are labeled 885X? 
The answer is obvious he would not have a clue. Furthermore Mr. Murphy being the asshole that he is,chances are the cheap ones would get shipped to the plumbing supply houses by mistake. :smack:
Common sense would dictate that example B is the only logical option here.
FTR I have special ordered the exact same part number Kohler toilet (2 in fact) from HD that the plumbing supply store offered. Absolutly no sign of diminished quality.
Having worked in both high end plumbing supply houses and at HD I can tell you that it is common for the smaller shops to use the “lower quality with same name” lie to help sell to consumers. No truth to it that I have ever been able to ascertain.
I’d love to have the model # of the toilet you claim has a non glazed trap.
I should have expanded further but I was in a bit of a hurry. It’s the former but the principle still applies: the outside looks the same as the higher priced article but the inside is different.
I was covering this as well:
Different manufacturer, yes, but the product is identical enough to go unnoticed by many.
I personally have seen the difference in tires at Wal-Mart and the tires sold at tire stores. The tires at Wal-Mart have a different part number, and if you read the tire sidewall are slightly inferior, usually having a lower temperature or treadwear rating than the tire sold at regular tire stores. Sometimes they’ll have a slightly different name, like Continental Sport/SUV rather than Continental Contitrac/SUV.
Of course, the Levis you buy at Wal-Mart are not the same as those sold at other retailers, either.
That’s not what’s being questioned here. We’re questioning the assertion that Wal-Mart sells Continental Sport/SUV tires that are somehow inferior to the Continental Sport/SUV tires available at a tire dealership. To put it another way- does Continental makes two versions of their Sport/SUV tires, one of which is of inferior quality and gets sold to Wal-Mart, while the superior quality ones go to the tire dealerships.