Except that they haven’t truly. The Holy See endorsed one method natural family planning or another since the 1800’s. Modern contraception is an extension of their own ideas regarding the management of the size of the families. More than that though, I don’t believe the piffle about being a threat to salvation (nor am I saying you do appleciders), I see it more as a threat to the coffers that they’re worried about.
Not compared to monagamy. Monogamous sex with a non-infected parter is safer than sex with multiple casual partners with a condom.
And although it is possible to get infected with HIV without sex, in none of those ways would a condom help.
Now, I admit that abstinence is a foolish solution that will not work in real life. But monogamy does work. It is a better solution than condoms. Now, monogamy with condoms just in case you really can’t keep it in your pants is even better.
I believe you may have a point. Sub Saharan Africa is about one third Muslim for starters. I’ve also read that many of their men’s refusal to wear condoms has nothing to do with church teaching anyway. So I thought that a comparison with a really Catholic region, say Latin America might show how really effective the Church may be on holding the line on HIV/AIDS through their teaching. I compared their stats as well to Western Europe’s, the least religious region of all.
Sub Sahara
- population 800 million
-HIV/AIDS cases 24.5 million
-Percentage affected 3.1%
Latin America
-population 577 million
-HIV/AIDS cases 1.7 million
-Percentage affected 0.3%
Western Europe
-population 732 million
-HIV/AIDS cases 5.8 million
-Percentage affected 0.8%
It would seem to me the the Roman Catholic Church is doing far better in Latin America ,reducing by 63% the HIV incidence over baseline western Europe, the region least likely to allow religious teaching on condoms or non marital sexual behaviour to influence their personal life style. Now that is fucking impressive.
Though the numbers are good, the comparisons aren’t apt when the variable of education is included. Overall, the education system in Latin America is leagues beyond that of Sub-Saharan Africa. Less education equals greater reliance on religion/religious leaders, who, in many cases are sent there by the Church.
You can’t save anyone who is already dead either. Can you? Hmmmm.
Some people think you can.
And some people think aliens travel zillions of lightyears across the universe to our little planet, just so they can shove things up our asses too. :rolleyes:
That’s true, there’s a church full of nutters around here who has actually claimed to raise a dead church-goer. People will get behind anything.
You do have a point, given the fact that Western Europe’s education system is leagues beyond that of Latin America. less religious, yet has a much higher incidence of HIV/AIDS.
Given the prevalence of commericial sex and sexual networking,against Church teaching, the acceptance of all male philandering ,against Church teaching, I’m hard pressed to believe the Church is all that influentual in Africa, and to blame the Church for failure in Africa is misguided. However where the Church is influential, they provide the best record in stemming HIV/AIDS anywhere except perhaps in some non African Muslim countries.
Why are you assuming that the prevalence of AIDS would be the same without religion? You aren’t controlling for lots of different things.
This. It serves no purpose, it does no good, it causes harm. One fool leading other fools to their graves.
What am I not controlling for ?
Yeah- China too! Totally religious, and that’s why they have an extremely low rate of HIV/AIDS infection.
Oh, wait.
Anything? Do you think diseases are always perfectly spread out across the globe? Can you show that South Americans follow the teachings of the RCC when it comes to sex and condom use?
Well, China in general has strong family based moral culture that values monagamy and eschews promiscuity. Its not so hard to imagine that people can be constrained from having indiscriminate sex whether by church teaching or cultural inertia.
Didn’t I just point out the opposite ?
No more than that Africans follow the teachings of the RCC, except for the fact that the RCC is way mor prominent in South America than Africa.
If the RCC didn’t exist, is it your claim that South America would have exactly the same incidence of AIDS as Africa does?
No. Look at China. The whole point of my participation here is to dispute the responsibility of the RCC in Africa’s high HIV/AIDS incidence that assumes a man would prevent himself from using a condom because the Pope says so, yet merrily goes on fucking around indiscriminately outside of marriage.
Is there a banging-head-on-desk smilie?
You obviously know fuck all about human nature, and the catholic church is like wise deluded, bloody minded, or just plain stupid.
Sex is one of those things that sometimes just happens, one thing leads to another and each step doesn’t seem so far past the last, and well it just happens. People get aroused and resistance melts.
People are gonna fuck. It’s what they do. Our closest relatives are Bonobos. It’s in our genes.
Now the Church can either put it’s head in the sand, proving it’s god is either a cruel control freak deserving of a punch in the nut sack, or it can wise up and suggest Condom use “if one must fuck which they shouldn’t”.
As it is now a follower is presented with either sinning once without a condom, or sinning twice with a condom.
As long as they preach condom use is immoral, the blood of any of that die as result of foolishness is on the Pope’s hands, and the hands of all his followers that choose to support the monster.