It isn’t that the church is failing in Africa, where programs to help are considered, they actually do good work, the opinion of the leader of the church however, is harmful, dangerous and igorant. Since that opinion is taken up by the clergy and passed on to the victims, er, parishoners, it doesn’t matter if it’s 10 people or 10,000, if you give bad information that will not only fail to protect but could actually CAUSE death, THAT is misguided.
This would be the same China that has a raging over population problem, despite decades of government attempts to curb family size, yes?
I’d say you know fuck all about what human nature is capable of in the right cultural framework. I still remember what life was like before the sexual revolution, and they don’t call it a revolution for nothing.
You might fuck like a bonobo, but you are speaking for yourself, not for me.
Yep, There is no correlation between the numbers of AIDS/HIV cases and pregnancies. The Chinese fuck as much as anybody else, but they fuck respectfully.
Where I can possibly see a problem with the point of view I’ve expressed so far is the case of a monagamous Catholic wife who desires not to use condoms (because of her faith) with her philandering husband.
The fact is that her philandering husband is the one who doesn’t want to use condoms because it diminishes his manhood, his pleasure, and he’s resisting the global conspiracy to limit the black population.
How effective is the RCC in limiting condom use ? Are Catholic girls in Africa or the US experiencing a higher pregnancy or HIV incidence in the respective environments ? I doubt it, so show me.
Previous generations fucked just as much as the current generation-they were just bigger hypocrites about hiding it.
Sure, but they didn’t fuck anywhere near as much in uncommited relationships.
Yeahhhh, right. Prostitution, casual sex, cheating and “Visiting Aunt Martha in the country” are a new thing.
Like I said, the only thing that is different is the level of hypocrisy.
Yes, but they don’t have to fuck more than one partner at a time. Monagamous sex is just fine. And the Church not only doesn’t say that married couple shouldnot have sex, they encourage it.
Raping little girls as “having sex with a virgin cures AIDs”* is *a new thing.
Yeah, that kind of thing will happen when you value mythology over science.
You’ve completely missed Dutchman’s point.
It is unconceivable that a guy going to a brothel will, as she spreads wide, realize that the Pope says condoms are wrong and decide not to wear one and get AIDS that way.
Sure, sex happens, but if I’m drunk and having a one-night-stand I’m not thinkg about *Humanae Vitae *to decide my level of condomness.
The sin for “non-spousal” sex is in no way inceased by condom use.
Drunk driving happens, but you don’t expect the Pope to say “if you’re gonna drive drunk, at least buckle up”.
Since when?
I thought their “policy” was still one of only having sex for procreation - even within marriage, and that birth control was bad, and the only “tolerable” family planning was the rhythm method (which doesn’t work very well). I remember as a kid, the women in the family saying things like “if the Pope wants me to keep breeding then dammit he can feed them all”.
So Africa living in the sexual repression of the past is worth the lives lost to aids? Is that what you’re saying?
Do you deny that condom use could save some lives? Are these deaths worth forcing it’s “morality” on other people?
well I am animal in the sack.
Sex is a close relationship thing for me, usually (there was that one time), but for many people it isn’t.
Not having my head up my ass, I can understand some people are different. Some are just naturally more promiscuous, and you know what? That’s okay. I’d much rather they use condoms then get some STD. It’s their life.
I wasn’t around from before the “sexual revolution” but I heard stories. When my grandma was a kid my great grandfather ran off and left her mom. As a result my great grandmother became a bit of a pariah in that small town. “Cross the street, don’t go by the divorced lady’s house”. Bastard never paid his child support and so they grew up very very poor. You ever eaten a lard sandwhich? That was my grandma’s school lunch sometimes. I don’t know how anyone could stomach such a thing.
The courts were half-assed about enforcing child support. It was more trouble then it was worth. Guess the judge or law figured she deserved her troubles.
You hear lots of stories about the troubles anyone who got pregnant out of marriage back then went through, bunch of judgmental assholes.
Meanwhile hypocritically the guys who, you know, got them pregnant didn’t face nearly as much judgment at all.
So don’t tell me it was a better system. Too many victims of it. Too much guilt for human nature.
Now say that guy has a catholic wife, she knows, but she can’t tell him to wear a condom because it’s a “sin”. Is that right?
What about if the couple can’t afford anymore kids. What are they supposed to do to control their fertility then?
Really? I was under the impression it was “blocking the will of god” or something which was a separate thing. (apparently this all powerful deity can be thwarted with a cheap sheet of latex.)
Sex can be reasonably safe, and a natural part of human relations. Drunk driving never is safe.
I’m not exactly sure what you are asking, but I don’t consider avoidance of non committed sex as repression.
Condoms could save a lot of lives as long as people could be convinced to use them consistently.
I’m not saying it was. Society has changed for both better and worse. I’m glad we are talking about sex much more openly, gay rights, sex education birth control STD awareness and so on, but the general attitude of acceptance for non committed sex, recreational sex and commercial sex and even the idea that good sex is the be all and the end all in a marriage has resulted in a lot of victims from broken homes, broken hearts, and the general results of exploitation. Promiscuity is a selfish behavior.
I remember the days back in the sixties and seventies and eighties often driving home safely on weekends after consuming a dozen drinks or so with no problem whatsover. Been pulled over a number of times while under the influence for speeding, missing light or not wearing a seat belt, admitting to having had several drinks and sent on my way with a minor ticket.
Well times have changed and society looks down on you with contempt if you drink and drive. Its changed my behavior and many of my contemporaries and the younger generation as well. That has saved more lives I’ll bet than seatbelts.
The sexual promiscuity of African males in general is just plain off the charts. I don’t think any church or mosque can turn that around, but I do believe that a war on promiscuity by the government including a heavy education program similar to what we’ve experienced in Canada with regard to drinking and driving will be far more effective than relying on condoms alone.
Condoms don’t work on a societal level, more condom use = more problems, we reap what we sow. God’s first order to humans is be fruitful and multiply, this was set forth the next verse after God created man and woman (Gen 1:27,28). Messing with this first (and only one in the unfallen world IMHO) rule God set forth caused all the problems we now live with in the ‘fallen world’ (IMHO).
It won’t happen that directly. But you will only use condoms if you have them. Which means they need to be widely and openly available in your community. Many NGOs work towards making sure that every village has a place that sells condoms. The pope could hinder that by making shops reluctant to sell condoms and people afraid to buy them.
And you are more likely to have them if you know how and why to use them. Many groups- including many Catholic groups- do presentations explaining why you should use condoms and demonstrating how to use them. The goal is to make it something that people are not scared, confused, or ashamed of. Believe it or not, there are still millions of people (women especially) who have never seen a condom, don’t know what they do, and don’t know how to use them. And every year there is a new generation of young people who need to know this stuff.