This Old House.....is a pain in my .....

Factual Questions
1

So this weekend, my wife and I went over to my mother’s house to help her pull up her carpet. The carpet that was in place was from the 1970’s, and had been through a sick grandmother, and 2 sick dogs…so besides being a lovely shade of olive green, it also stunk. So up it came. Since the upstairs has hardwood flooring, there was a good chance that the downstairs did as well. And sure enough, hardwood floors underneath…oak I think. What is giving us pause is the fact that they seem to be stained 3 different shades. Now I’m sure that the proper way of doing this job would be to sand them down, and restain them. However, that is not something I’d like to do…my mom is looking to sell the house, because it’s just to much upkeep for her. So we just want to make them look presentable, and leave it for the next people to do the whole “renovation” thing. Does anyone have any advice about how to lift the stain?..or lighten it enough so that we can re-stain everything so that it sort of matches?
And while I’m at it, anyone have any great home-improvment sites? I can handle most simple things, changing fixtures, basic plumbing…stuff like that…but where would I go for instructions on how to say…repair a plaster celing? I’ve looked in hardware stores, but can’t find the same kind of plaster that’s in place now…just finishing plaster. Or re-wire a house? While I hope not to have to do this stuff on my own, if she’s in it long enough, I’ll probably end up taking a shot at most of it.

As soon as I find a place that I can put pictures online, I’ll post the ones that I took, and provide links, so any Bob Villa-type people out there can see what I’m talking about. Thanks in advance for any help.

2

Atrael:

Wow!

I’m jealous of the great set of projects you have before you. :slight_smile:

Regarding your floors, you’re right - the only real fix is to sand them and re-stain. While it is a bear of a job to do yourself, it is possible. Or, if you’re feeling timid, you can hire a good firm to do it for you… it should only cost a couple of hundred dollars per room.

The alternative is to collect three bids then subtract the average of the three from your Asking Price when you sell the house. Smart buyers will appreciate the legwork and honesty.

Regarding How-To Advice:

To make a long story short, you’ll be best served by looking for How-To advice at your local Public Library. There, you can get books that you can take back to the job site and refer to in the middle of your project. Web-based advice is just less convenient for things like this.

That being said, there are lots of great resources on the Web. Try:

[li] http://www.hometime.com[/li][li] http://www.diynet.com[/li][li] http://www.familyhandyman.com[/li]
Those should get your stared. Good luck - keep us posted!

-sdimbert, who spent his Sunday hanging light fixtures and trenching telephone cable in the mud.

[Edited by bibliophage on 09-17-2001 at 08:36 PM]

3

I realize that this isn’t responsive to your OP, but I’ll throw my two cents in:

I’m in the process of buying a new house, and we got an estimate to have the floors sanded and re-stained.

It was about $1600, and our house is about 1500 sf. The guy has a good reputation, and we live in an expensive part of the country.

I’m not an expert on real estate, but I think that these sorts of cosmetic improvements are well worth it if you are about to sell the house.

4

I agree with sdimbert. I wish I had some of those projects. I live in a two-year-old condo. No handyman projects for me :frowning: .

Sanding and re-finishing is the only way to go. It’s not complicated, and your local home center ought to be able to rent you all the gear (and teach you how to use it), but it is a lot of work. Go with one of sdimbert’s ideas: do it yourself, hire someone to do it, or subtract the cost from the house asking price.

Or you could cover it up with carpet again…

5

It depends on the market.

When I bought my house in Denver, I tore up the cat urine soaked carpets from the two bedrooms, to find oak floors underneath. They were stained – probably 50 years ago, so they looked rather rustic. Still, they were hardwood floors. I soaked 'em in enzyme cleaner to get the smell out, pulled out the carpet nails, and decided to suck it up and live with the floors the way they were. After all, in a neighborhood whee so many vintage houses had their interiors extensively remodeled in the 1970s, any trace of the past was a big plus.

The buyers of my old house resanded and refinished the floors in the entire house, including the rooms that were in excellent condition. They were trying to make the floor color as light as popular, apaprently a popular trend among the yuppies that were gentrifying the area. If I refinished the floors in those two bedrooms, it would have been for naught.

6

Having recently hired someone to refinish our floors, I’m of the opinion that it’s not a DIY job, at least for the less experienced handyperson. The primary reason for not doing the job yourself is that, as I recall from one of those TLC Hometime shows, there is a great potential for screwing up your floors with the sander if it’s not operated properly. Mainly, the sander has to be kept in motion while in operation or you can gouge up the floorboards pretty badly.

I would also agree that it’s one of those jobs that would definitely pay for itself in resale value. Nicely refinished hardwood floosr are, I believe, a big selling point.

Lastly, in shopping around, I found a wide range of prices and the most expensive weren’t neccesarily the most hightly recommended.

7

Having just done this in my home about a year ago I can tell you that the home improvement folks I asked said that, short of sanding and refinishing, there is no way to make stained hardwood floors look presentable. You cannot lighten or darken the existing stain and expect it to look uniform.

8

Elmwood has an excellent point. I think that the new buyers (whoever they may be) might appreciate the ability to select their own stain color for the floors. When my parents sold their old house a few years ago, they replaced the floor in their ensuite bathroom, because it was stained. The new owners upon posession, tore out the entire bathroom and had it all redone.

My uncle (who is a realtor) says that, in general, when people spend money upgrading their home to sell, it only raises the value of the home by approximately two thirds of the cost of the improvements, on average. He feels that one is better served selling the house at the pre-improvement price, and allowing the buyer to make their own decisions on upgrades.

9

OTOH, imagine yourself the potential house-buyer, walking into a house and seeing a floor that needed sanding and refinishing. Would you say to yourself, “Oh joy! I get to spend $1,500 and breath polyurethane fumes for two weeks to get the floor I want!”

Or would you say, “Next house!”

I suspect more would say the latter than the former.

I’ve gone through the process in two houses, and it is far better to let a pro do it, unless you really really really really like DIY projects. It’s hard work and very easy to screw up. It’s very dusty. You have to tape off all the doorways you don’t want dust to penetrate, then vacuum to a faretheewell before laying down the poly.

I did most of the light handyman work on my first house, but left this one to the pro. He also nailed down the quarter-round that had been taken up when the carpeting was installed.

One more thing to think of: both times, we went with the high-gloss poly, the first time was water-based and wore through pretty quick, even with carpet pads on the chairs. The second time was oil-based, and although it stunk to high heaven (the family abandoned the house for a week, leaving me to house sit – Amityville would have been a better place to be), the result was gorgeous.

Of course, the refinisher thought we were nuts and refused to believe that we didn’t want the matte finish. We did.

10

Thanks everyone, you of course know that those weren’t the answere’s I was looking for. sigh Well, getting a professional to do it is out. My mom can’t possibly afford that, and while I may be able to swing it, I’ve already paid off a portion of her debts, so I don’t want to jepordize my own family, or leave us strapped for cash. The only reason I suspected that there may be a way to lighten the stain without sanding is because of the way the floor looks now. The darker stained area is right smack in the middle of the floor in two rooms. Like it was covered by an area rug. The area surrounding the dark spots is much much lighter. I can’t for the life of me think that someone would sand and restain around an area rug, and the overlapping areas look as if they have brush strokes.

Instead of using the big industrial sanders, what do you think about maybe a good sized hand belt sander? That would be slower I’m sure, but I’d be more comfortable with the equipment, so less likely to screw the floor up.

Leaving the floor the way it is isn’t really an option…the shadding is just too obviouse, so I have to do something…not sure what, but something. Please, keep the suggestions coming, I appriciate all of them. I’ll make that plea again for anyone that’s done any plaster work to chime in with any tips about that too. I’m really starting to hate this house…and I haven’t even gotten to the wireing, or the yardwork yet.

Also, pesch, you said you used an oil based poly after the staining, did you use one or two coats of stain? And with the high-gloss poly, do you have to wax and buff? I’d prefer that once I get this done, I don’t have to do anything else to keep it up.

11

The difference in color may be due to light exposure. I assume that the markings are not consistent with the floor having two different woods? In many old houses, they used a harder wood around the edges than in the center, because the center would be covered by a rug anyway.

I think trying to use a belt sander would leave the floor in worse shape than doing nothing.

How’s your local housing market? If people are buying houses left and right, this will not be a big problem. You should ask your realtor about whether it “needs” to be done to sell the house.

I can’t recommend any DIY websites, but I got some excellent book recommendations from Dopers in this thread. In particular, The Walls Around Us was a great book for gaining confidence to touch our new old house, and the Home Depot 1-2-3 series has been really good for detailed instructions on how to do stuff.

12

Uh uh, no how, no way. “Slower” doesn’t begin to cover it. It would take weeks of constant work with a belt sander to equal an afternoon with a drum sander. And that’s if your belt sander was up to the task. Most home models would not be. When you refinish a floor you are taking off a good portion of the wood (stain penetrates), not just smoothing. You need a drum sander for the main areas and a specialized hand held sander for the areas too tight for the drum (corners, wall edges, etc.). I did use a belt sander for some of the tightest work, I can’t imagine using it for the major work. Oh, get lots of sandpaper, too. Old poly tends to melt and fill the crevices in the sandpaper rather quickly.

We settled on 3 coats which we put on a little thicker than normal, but 4-5 standard coats of poly is generally recommended. Allow 8-12 hours for drying, lightly sand and thoroughly damp mop between each coat.

Also bear in mind that sanding is a multi-step process as well. One round with coarse paper, one with medium, one with fine, another medium and another fine. Remove all dust between each round. It ain’t rocket science, but it ain’t much fun either.

13

I concur with the Dr. when he says not to use the belt sander. It will take forever with the real equipment, let alone a belt sander.

One tip: We rented a floor sander once when we were doing this, it had a flat area on the bottom that it vibrated at high speed. This thing is no good and should be avoided at all costs, you will be sanding for years. Get the drum sander.

Also the rental shop that we rent from has a video that they give out with this type of equipment, it should explain everything, if your shop gives them out too.

I believe that you can do this. When people say that it is hard, they mean hard on their back and their patience, not hard to do right.

Clint.

14

Can you possibly just add some darker stain to the light areas, to make it less obvious?

You should stock up on air filter masks, and make sure you have on safety goggles because you’ll have sawdust trying real, real hard to head into your eyes and lungs. However, I envy you - I’d love to have a project house.

Seawitch
[sub]who spent her weekend replacing drywall and painting[/sub]

15

Don’t just wish! own! After all, this project house is for sale!

16

Stain works by seeping into the wood. If the floor is already coated with polyurethane (or even wax), this won’t work.

You could paint it, but that probably wouldn’t be a value-increasing plan.

I still say you should put it on the market as-is. You’d really be surprised what people will bid on. My husband and I just bought our first house. It’s a two-family Victorian that needs major electrical work, renovations of the bathrooms and probably the kitchens, new siding, and rebuilt porches. We expect it to be our new hobby for the forseeable future. But we were able to afford it, we love our neighborhood, and we expect to make money on it, even with the work we’re putting in.

All of the above is in a strong sellers’ market. If you’re not in that situation, your best bet may be to borrow money to get the renovations done, assuming you’ll make it back in increased value. Ask your realtor how much of a difference he thinks the floors will make. If you don’t trust your realtor, ask an appraiser.

How big an area are you talking about, anyway?

17

Ok, first off, here’s a link to some pictures of the floor, so maybe you can get an idea of what we’re talking about. The link should upen up to a directory, with 3 pictures in it. Sorry that it’s so basic, but I didn’t have a lot of time to spend makeing a nice web page.

http://kriskerr.tripod.com/pictures/

The living room is about 10x30 or so, and the dining room is about 10x12. One of the problems with sanding and staining is that there’s no place to put all the furniture. We’d have to do one half of the living room, move the stuff over, then do the other half, then move the stuff out of the dinning room, and do that. So it’s a major undertaking. I don’t know about the market in the area, she’s had the house for sale before, and the agent really didn’t do much. I know that one of the comments made by another agent was that the carpet needed to be replaced. Rather than do that, and to show that the place had hardwood floors, we decided to pull the carpet up. I think the floors have potential, but I’m not sure that we want to do all that work. She had the house on the market for 6 months, then the agent dropped her. I have to say, that I’m pretty sure the house would have sold if the agent had been a bit more pro-active. She never mentioned the new roof/siding/furnace/hot water heater/or plumbing.

Some background on the house. It was built in the 1920’s, and the same couple lived in it untill my mom bought it in 1986. It has plaster walls, and plaster ceilings. Although the ceiling is covered by a tile like ceiling. I’m guessing that there were some cracks in the plaster, and instead of repairing them, they decided to just cover them with tile.
The house has original wireing. Which is on my list of things to do, but re-wireing the house is a major undertaking that I will definatly need help on. My mom has put on a new roof within the past 5 years, new siding at the same time. New furnace and hot water heater about 3 years ago, and 2 years ago, had most of the plumbing re-done upstairs and downstairs. I think the house has some great potential, but my mom can’t keep it up herself, and just doesn’t have the money to really get the work done, so I try and do as many of the projects as I can. If I knew how, I’d redo the ceilings myself. The trim around the baseboards and doors is probably the same wood as the floors, but it’s been painted over, and stripping all of them is a task larger than I want to do now.

lol…hell yes, anybody looking for a good fixer-uper in the Portsmouth, Virginia area, have I got a deal for you. :slight_smile:

Thanks for all the help and suggstions everyone, please feel free to keep them coming. This weekend I’ll be starting on whatever course of action I decide on, so please thow ideas out untill then, this is a big help.

18

Interesting. From the pictures, it looks like there was some sort of builtin cabinet at one point between the two rooms. It also looks like one section of the floor right along the border of the dark-stained area was replaced at one point, because the edges of all the boards align. So there may have been some major remodeling of the house at some point.

One thing that you might try is oxalic acid which is a wood bleach. You are unlikely to be able to get things to match exactly, but you might be able to tone down the stain considerably.

One more thing – floors that old may not have been finished with polyurethane – I’d guess it’s more likely wax, shellac, or varnish. That might affect your approach – some of these finishes can be stripped, whereas polyurethane doesn’t dissolve in anything I’m aware of.

19

Fine Homebuilding
Great Website. Great Magazine. Great Books.

But I may be biased. :wink:

20

http://www.improvenet.com
has a handy bulletin board.

BTW, we sanded and polyed our floors ourselves (about 1500 sq. ft.) and did it for about $750. That’s HALF of what professionals would charge. It’s fun! Running that big noisy drum sander with my goggles and mask…I felt like such a MAN. Edging’s a bitch though. The end product may not look like a 100% professional job, but it looks about 300% better than before.