This prosecutor should spend 19 years behind bars

Now, come on . . . I know a lot of prosecutors through my husband’s work, and they’re people, too. They’re not heartless . . . . those whom I know would be sickened if they thought they’d put an innocent man behind bars, and horrified if the real guilty party went free. They take their responsibilities to the citizens of the state very seriously.

They don’t have giant, evil conspiracies to incarcerate innocent people. They live in the same cities as we do-- they don’t want the real criminasl roaming the streets with their kids. Prosecutors aren’t always judged by how many convictions they get (maybe in “big market” areas like New York) but how efficiently they do their jobs. DAs don’t want the embarassment and bad PR of a renegade prosecutor just trying to stuff the prisons. After all, their superiors read the papers, too, and they better have a damn good explanation if the shit hits the fan.

Nor does having a conviction overturned necessarily make the prosecutor “look bad” in the eyes of those who understand the system. After all, he simply did his job. He presented the case he had, not our of personal malice, but out of professional duty. If new evidence comes to light showing that the jury’s decision to send the man to prison was erroneous, it’s a tradgedy, but no one blames the prosecurot. After all, he’s not omnipotent. He went off the information he had at the time.

Professional malfeasance is another story. If they can prove that a prosecutor is guilty of actual misconduct, such as destroying evidence, tampering with witnesses and the like, his superiors will fry his ass. They won’t try to cover it up, or get in on the conspiracy. These are people, not demons. Yeah, some of them are power-hungry assholes, but you find those kinds of folk in every walk of life, and they tend to get quietly weeded out.

I reiterate that prosecutors don’t put people in prison: juries do. The prosecutor presents his evidence and argument, and the jury decides whether or not to convict.

What I think probably happened is that this prosecutor was so convinced by the evidence that he thought a DNA test was unnecessary and thus a waste of the taxpayer’s money and the court’s time. And many times it is. Inmates often file lawsuits just to slow down the legal process. (I personally know of several cases in which the inmate successfully fought a lengthy battle to get DNA tests, and the results proved that the inmate was, indeed, guilty.)

I would bet my first-born child there was no personal vendetta that the prosecutor had against this inmate. Likely, he didn’t even remember who the guy was, and had to go back and read all the case files.

When a suit is filed, the prosecutor has to reply, and the reply is usually an automatic “no.” Not because the prosecutor is mean, but because that’s his job. It’s an adversarial system, folks. We don’t reopen every case when an inmate demands it. If every single inmate demanded DNA testing in the appeals process, the justice system would be glutted with cases.

On a related note, in my state, we have recently begun compulsory DNA testing of anyone convicted of a felony. The inmates are fighting it vehemently. Lawsuits abound. The reason they are so opposed? The DNA goes into a datatbase and is matched with evidence from unsolved crimes. Dozens and dozens of convictions have resulted. I have not heard yet of a single discovery of a wrongful conviction resulting from it.

Until we get caught up, we’re just going to have to deal with the glut.

It cuts both ways. I’m pleased that it is convicting criminals as well as exonerating the innocent. Right now, there should be some sense of urgency and fair play about exonerating the innocent.

You know, some people wonder how a lawyer can defend a rapist in court.

Internal police resources list arrests as well as convictions. There is some rationale for this: a not-guilty finding means that the state couldn’t prove their case, not that the accused was factually innocent. I believe the police should have access to that sort of information.

Where we cross the line into madness, of course, is sharing that information with the victim, especially in the context of a photo array. Ideally, the photo array or line-up should be presented or conducted by an officer that is himself unaware of which one the suspect is. This would prevent any inadvertant clues or reactions that tent to taint victim IDs.

Is this a serious question?

Just out of interest, then: What possible reason, in a case like that in the OP, could a prosecutor have for opposing a DNA test?

What would you say if someone came to you and said, “Hey, there’s this guy who’s been in jail for 19 years, who maintains his innocence, and who has refused to say he’s guilty even though it might have got him parole on four separate occasions. Furthermore, there is now a test available that was not available at the time of his conviction, and there is evidence collected from the crime scene upon which we can conduct this test in order to prove conclusively whether or not this guy was the rapist”?

None of this has to involve a conspiracy. It can merely be the result of prosecutors who have the same desire to move up the career ladder as many other professionals. The difference is that prosecutors aren’t just making Powerpoint presentations or reaching sales targets, they’re responsbile for determining the future course of people’s lives.

If this is all true, why then the adamant opposition by some prosecutors to even conducting a simple DNA test? If they are concerned to have the right person in prison, surely such a definitive test would be in their best interests also? Why do they so frequently oppose motions for such tests, even when, on some occasions, the appellant actually offers to pay all costs associated with the test?

Which only goes to show that it’s in the prosecution’s best interests, if they really want to see justice served, to allow the tests in the first place. If the test shows the guy is innocent, a horrible wrong has been righted. And if it shows he’s guilty, the prosecution can wave it in the guy’s face and say, “Sorry, my friend, but you’re going to have to stick around.”

No-one said otherwise. In fact, all your assertion does is demonstrate the institutional inertia that leads to bad convictions and an unwillingness to revisit them.

There’s no necessary contradiction, in my opinion, between an adversarial system and allowing a prisoner to have a DNA test. Just because it’s an adversarial system does not mean that a prosecutor should be able to deny the defence access to possibly-exculpatory evidence.

And your “glutted with cases” argument is ridiculous. Why should we deny justice just because the court system is over-worked? Also, in many cases there will be no evidence to test for DNA. And in others, DNA will not make or break the case one way or another.

Furthermore, on the issue of clogging the courts and using up resources, i’m no expert on the cost to the state of the appeals process, but it strikes me that it would probably actually be cheaper and easier, in many cases, to allow the DNA testing than to actually spend the time fighting the motion for such a test. According to Otto’s post in this thread, a DNA test can be had for around $500. How does that compare to the cost to the state, in time and resources, of opposing such a test?

Nice try, but this is a completely unrelated issue.

The question of whether we should allow tests on a particular piece of evidence in a particular case at the request of the defendant is a completely separate from the question of compulsory DNA sampling from all felons.

Not sure exactly what you’re saying here. It’s not clear whether you agree with them or not.

But the people who think that are morons. Because, by definition, the accused cannot be guilty of rape until after the trial. The trial itself is about establishing “guilty” or “not guilty,” and to suggest that “rapists” shouldn’t be defended is to suggest that they not even have the opportunity to defend themselves against the charges.

What I was trying to say, is that some people complain about defense lawyers, under the incorrect assumption, that the accused is always guilty.

True enough.

But i would go even further and say that, even in cases where the accused is found guilty, this is no reflection upon the character of the lawyer. Hell, even if the accused actually tells the lawyer he did it, the lawyer is still, AFAIK, bound to defend the accused to the best of his or her ability.

Gotcha. Obviously, I agree. :slight_smile:

Right, I understand that, but I had always assumed that the pictures the police shared with witnesses for identification were separate from the ones in their internal files.

Agreed.

Anyone interested in this subject would do well to look at the documentary film After Innocence, currently making the festival rounds and shortly to run on Showtime. It’s about the efforts of the Innocence Project, and looks specifically at half a dozen or so cases of men freed from prison after having been exonerated of crimes they did not commit. In most instances, the state just turns the men onto the street without even an apology, let alone compensation, job retraining, or anything else. But of particular interest given the tenor of this thread will be the courtroom footage showing precisely and explicitly the prosecutorial misconduct Lissa insists does not happen: There’s one convicted man who already has the DNA test proving his innocence and who is still fighting an overzealous prosecutor who doesn’t want to lose the notch on the butt of his prosecutorial pistol. It’s shocking, horrifying, and completely disgusting, and the prosecutor is completely unapologetic for his continued efforts to fuck up the life of an innocent man, “just because.” :mad:

Thanks for the info, Cervaise. I’ll keep an eye out for it.

Although the website says that the film will be distributed to theatres nationwide in October.

Are there any documented cases of someone being put to death and it is subsequently discovered he/she is innocent?

If you told your lawyer “Yes I killed them all” isn’t that lawyer obligated to turn that over? If not thats sort of blurry ethically or something IMHO anyway.

On to this case in the OP, I am throwing any person in the legal profession that would rather have a stat then justice into a double helping of corn filled shit, with a cherry on top.

As a parent of two small children myself I wince when I think about them, and what happens to them if it happened to me. Not to mention this whole guys life. I went to the park this weekend, kids love the swings and the slides, its too late for this dad to take his children to the park. (Well and enjoy the swings and slides)
His family was probably blacklisted with all the neighbors as the “one with the rapist”
19 years, here is a list of things he missed being a part of most likely
His children entering school
School plays
School sports
Guiding his children
Being there when his child fell down needing a hug
Waking up, walking outside.
Watching the fireworks
Wrapping his childrens presents and watching the excitement as they are opened
Spending the holidays with his family
Freedom
And so very much more think of your last 19 years and then take it all away because your behind bars. Those who do these convictions knowingly deserve nothing less then doing the same time, and those who try to keep justice from being served can serve the time with them.

No apology can make this go away but I think I would be much less angry if the prosecutor did not fight the DNA testing.

I’d like to ask Lissa two questions.

  1. Since when is it a prosecutors’ job to decide if a DNA test is “necessary” or not?
  2. What do you say about prosecutors who continue to fight against overturning convictions AFTER the DNA has already exonerated an individual and the prosecutor KNOWS FOR A FACT that the person is innocent?

Personally, I can’t see any moral excuse for trying to block a test that will remove any doubt and tell us the truth about a case. If the prosecutor is right, then he’s got nothing to worry about. The test will prove it. The only reason to oppose the test is if the prosecutor is worried that it will prove innocence and they’ll lose a conviction. Prosecutors like that (especially in capital cases) are every bit as evil and sociopathic as the rapists and murderers they lock up.

Link

Upon reviewing that site for the book :
Actual Innocence: Five Days to Execution,
and Other Dispatches from the Wrongly Convicted
Barry Scheck, Peter Neufeld, and Jim Dwyer

And some of the stats they used I would come to the same conclusion they did. Sad, very sad for such an advanced society.

  • This was published in 2000, there may be other information out there that verifies an innocent execution.

But wait a minute. GWB says he’s a 100% sure that no innocent people have ever been executed.

  1. Which means that some of them are heartless bastards who are looking for a high conviction record in order to further their policical career.

  2. So- how much is the cost? Isn’t it already mostly subsumed into the overhead of a crime lab? And, in the case where it confirms the guilt- I don’t think that’s a waste of money at all.

  3. But it shouldn’t be “adversarial”. The DA represents NOT the opposing side, but “the people”. If the person is innocent then the DA should want than known also.
    On to the death penalty and some hundred dudes convicted but later found innocent. You should know that death penalty proponents point to this as proof that 'the system works" as post conviction appeals are certainly a “part of the system”. So far- there hasn’t been one person executed (in the last few decades) that has been proved innocent afterwards. I understand that the State stops looking for evidence at that point, but quite a few heirs of executed killers have hired PI’s and continued “the fight” afterwards.

This doesn’t mean I support the Death Penalty. I- in general- do not. I greatly oppose it when it’s more or less routine, such as in Texas. But when we have some of these horrid mass torture killers, especially those that prey on kids- I can understand the death penalty.

Nope. What a client tells his/her lawyer can’t be revealed by the attorney unless the client explicitly waives attorney-client privilege. The ABA’s Model Code of Professional Responsiblity has an entire section devoted to this issue, the opening paragraph of which states:

In the modern era there have been more then one questionable execution

Source

I am for the death penalty, but it should be put on hold for as many years/decades/centuries it takes before we can convict someone without any doubt of there guilt. As it stands now to many are convicted based on race, money, political grandstanding, flimsy evidence to even start thinking of ending someone’s life.