"This study proves that sugar is toxic."

[rat_avatar]

@DSeid

From a practical POV, please remember that the table sugar (sucrose), high fructose corn syrup, honey, all contain roughly the same amount of fructose to glucose. Some fruits contain a slighty higher percent of fructose relative to glucose than those sweeteners do but generally contain fairly small amounts of sugar compared to a 16 oz soda: a large apple has less than half the sugar (23 grams) of a 16 oz Coke’s 56 grams, and comes with both soluble and insoluble fiber (over 1/5 of your recommended daily allowance) plus a bunch of other good stuff. A large banana? Only 17 grams of sugar, 14% of your daily fiber, and if not too ripe some resistant starch that functions as a prebiotic and satisfies longer.

The study found no correlation of increased DM risk with more fruit intake. The correlation was with added sugars. Again, it does not prove it was the added sugar. Added sugar could just be a marker for highly processed food created by the food industrial complex as a general category, for example. But a diet high in fruit, as part of an varied diet of real foods with adequate protein and vegetables? Few will have anywhere near the amount of daily sugar as a diet that contains lots of processed foods with added sugars. Diets high in fruit are consistently associated with overall lower cancer risks.

Unless by “fruit” they are talking about, 100% unsweetened fruit juice.

Apple Juice 54 grams of sugar per 16oz (odd mixed units btw)
Orange Juice 46 grams of sugar in 16oz.
Grape Juice 80 grams of sugar per 16oz
Cranberry Juice 64 grams of sugar in 16oz.

Or all of the “smoothies” from companies like Odwalla etc…

You are making correlations between sweet drinks and foods, people don’t go grab an apple from the fridge when they are thirsty.

Processed doesn’t matter at all in this case it is all about calorie density, if you are going to claim differently please provide a cite.

[DSeid]

Yes, fruit juices are also concentrated sources of sugars, and while the various phytochemicals in juices like orange juice do offer some benefits, like raising HDL andlowering risk of strokes, the sugar content is definitely offsetting those benefits. Excess fruit juice, with its excess sugar, is indeed also associated with increased DM risk. Juice can be overconsumed almost as easily as soda can.

[colander]

@Honesty

I didn’t bother because there’s no need for me to cite something that I know is 100% fact.

As you wish. However, if you provide no cites, nobody has any reason to believe anything you say.

But since you’ve asked: feel free to look at some evidence here, here, and here. The second link is a free article if you’re unable to access scientific journals through your university or school access.

From your second cite:

RESULTS:

Ten cohort studies (13 publications) were included in the meta-analysis. The summary relative risk (RR) per 10 glycemic index units was 1.02 [95% confidence interval (CI): 0.93-1.12, I(2) = 0%], per 50 glycemic load units was 1.03 (95% CI: 0.93-1.14, I(2) = 10%), per 100 g/day of total carbohydrates was 0.97 (95% CI: 0.81-1.16, I(2) = 35%), and per 25 g/day of sucrose intake was 1.05 (95% CI: 0.85-1.23, I(2) = 53%). A positive association was observed with fructose intake, summary RR = 1.22 (95% CI: 1.08-1.37, I(2) = 0%) per 25 g/day.

That’s… not a super impressive effect, friend. It certainly doesn’t convince me of your theory that too much fruit gave Steve Jobs pancreatic cancer, which is quite frankly one of the more insane things I’ve read on this board.

Colander, I encourage you not worry about the cites but to join in on a high-fructose diet that many poor, low-income Americans eat everyday. In the morning, your diet should include a flour-based, energy-dense carbohydrate (e.g. twinkies, cinnamon buns, etc), Welch’s grape juice, and a banana. Lunch and dinner should also topped off with copious amounts of fructose-rich foods like fruit juices and processed sugars. Do this for about a year and let us know how your pancreas is doing (tell your doctor to run a blood test for carbohydrate antigen 19 - your doctor will know what I mean) as well as your blood pressure.

That was also pretty insane. Great Job!

[Honesty]

@colander

It certainly doesn’t convince me of your theory that too much fruit gave Steve Jobs pancreatic cancer, which is quite frankly one of the more insane things I’ve read on this board.

It’s not my theory, but the great thing about my role on this board is that I don’t give a flying fuck whether you’re convinced of my argument. I’ve stated my peace and if you don’t believe it, think I’m lying, distorting the facts, or just blowing steam, then you’re more than welcome to believe it. I’m not going to provide you with more cites when pubmed has over a hundred individual citations dating back to 1963 on this topic nor am I going to crawl on my hands-and-knees begging you to see my point of view. Do your own research starting with pubmed and come up with your own conclusions.

I didn’t say that fruit causes cancer, I’m saying that having a diet enriched in fructose will invariably lead to diabetes and, depending on lifestyle and genetics, possibly pancreatic cancer. A glass of fruit juice is concentrated sugar - have you ever had a glass of 100% grape juice? It contains roughly the same amount of sugar as a candy bar. If you think I’m bullshitting you, then well, bon appetite, I encourage you to put your actions where your doubts are and switch your diet to contain high-fructose and processed sugars.

Good luck!

• Honesty

[Leaper]

@Honesty

I’m saying that having a diet enriched in fructose will invariably lead to diabetes and, depending on lifestyle and genetics, possibly pancreatic cancer.

Invariably? Wow.

And couldn’t ANYONE get pancreatic cancer depending on lifestyle and genetics?

[colander]

@Leaper

Invariably? Wow.

That’s our Honesty!

[Honesty]

@Leaper

Invariably? Wow.

And couldn’t ANYONE get pancreatic cancer depending on lifestyle and genetics?

I give up guys. Have fun.

• Honesty

[Leaper]

Uh, okay.

I don’t exactly know what I said that was so offensive, but I don’t suppose I can do anything about it now.

I think there’s been some interesting discussion, though. I’m still not 100% sure exactly what the science says, but I get the feeling that’s par for the course when it comes to nutrition (and especially the discussion of said science).

[DSeid]

A bit more for the interested:

The fiber in fruit (let alone the other phytochemicals) minimally offsets the potentially deleterious effects of the relatively scant amount of fructose in it. For details see this review, which discusses the beneficial effects of fiber

which include improvement of insulin sensitivity, modulation of the secretion of certain gut hormones, and effects on various metabolic and inflammatory markers that are associated with the metabolic syndrome.

OTOH the case against added sugars (yes, the fructose componant being labelled the bad guy, whether it is in HFS or sucrose) in DM does not only have the study of this op to support it. There is experimental evidence as well. See here:

high-fructose diet induced dyslipidemia and hepatic and adipose tissue insulin resistance

Here’s another, that supports it is the excess fructose rather than the excess glucose. Excess calories in the form of sweetened beverages, one arm all glucose and the other all fructose.

visceral adipose volume was significantly increased only in subjects consuming fructose. Fasting plasma triglyceride concentrations increased by approximately 10% during 10 weeks of glucose consumption but not after fructose consumption. In contrast, hepatic de novo lipogenesis (DNL) and the 23-hour postprandial triglyceride AUC were increased specifically during fructose consumption. Similarly, markers of altered lipid metabolism and lipoprotein remodeling, including fasting apoB, LDL, small dense LDL, oxidized LDL, and postprandial concentrations of remnant-like particle–triglyceride and –cholesterol significantly increased during fructose but not glucose consumption. In addition, fasting plasma glucose and insulin levels increased and insulin sensitivity decreased in subjects consuming fructose but not in those consuming glucose. These data suggest that dietary fructose specifically increases DNL, promotes dyslipidemia, decreases insulin sensitivity, and increases visceral adiposity in overweight/obese adults.

(Bolding mine.)