Of course it is. Driving is a far more complex dynamic than any one simple factor, and quality of the road (including design and capacity for speed) is a major one. Controlled entry and exit is another major one. Single-direction traffic is another. It all adds up to a very limited set of driver actions that can sustain much higher speeds than a smaller, narrower, curvier, 2-way road with continuous entrance and exit. I-5 down the Central Valley is not a 2-lane road in Texas or Ohio.
You just focused on the least important part of my post and ignored my main point. Proximity to other drivers. You can’t just hand wave that away like it’s a non factor.
You yourself admitted that nobody allows the recommended space. I don’t advocate tailgating, and I usually leave more room than most in front of me. However if platoons of cars are travelling at freeway speeds and I can see ahead for many seconds (15-30) then I am okay bing in a closely-spaced platoon of cars for a little while. I “work” traffic to get away from it, and won’t stay in that tight platoon for long.
No, I specifically addressed it. If all the drivers are going the same direction at much the same speed with miles of visibility and no cross or interference traffic, proximity is far less of an issue than it is on roads with more conflicts.
There’s places in Texas where the speed of the OP is the speed limit.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-texas-speed-limit-20121024,0,7335437.story
Well, there is right.
And there is dead right.
It is exactly how one manages all encounters with Law Enforcement Officers.
- They have total power.
- You have none.
- You have no rights out there on the roadway. One can ACLU-spew all day long but yanno what? On the I-5 in almond country your rights are reduced to " be cowed and don’t get killed" and that’s about all.
- Do what you’re told.
Yes, surely ALL of the THUGS in the world are in America! LOL!
I have a hard time believing you have the experience you claim to have, or why there’s really much truth to this tale. Here’s why:
“The riders wore Hells Angels on their jackets. No visible club name, although I saw some with MC (for motorcycle club) on the backs of jackets, but no club names.”
That’s like saying “He was wearing a Cincinnati Reds uniform, with ‘Reds’ on their shirt, but no team name.”
Jacket? Really? You’re a motorcycling authority and you assume either A) A big group of Hells Angels would ride wearing “jackets,” or B) A vest or “cut” is called a “jacket.” Your credibility just fell by 50%.
Hells Angels IS a Motorcycle Club. The name of the club is “Hells Angels.” The HA colors include an “MC” patch to the right of the logo. A club cut will have the HA logo in the middle of the back, with a “Hells Angels” rocker on the top and their geographic area on the bottom rocker.
http://www.hells-angels.com/gallery/popup.php?pic=102.jpg
“Well, the group clearly didn’t like it and the riders at the back moved up and surrounded me, passing me on the left and right. They were mere inches from the sides of my car, on both sides. None of them reached over to touch or punch my car, but they easily could have - while we’re all doing 80mph. One rider planted himself directly in front of me and slowed down to about 60, while the other riders worked past me.”
So…You broke up their pack, and in order to put it back together, they passed you. One “planted himself in front of you.” 80 wasn’t fast enough for you, you needed to get in the middle of their pack? I’ve ridden in fairly tight packs, and I’ve never seen a cager do that on purpose. At that speed, I would have interpreted YOUR action as a hostile move. YOU were the dangerous one. It was probably a road captain who stepped in to help the riders get back together and safely away from a potentially hostile, or maybe drunk driver. If you are really a motorcycle instructor, you NEVER would have done that. I’m calling BS on that alone.
“These riders clearly tried to intimidate me, but I wasn’t going to be intimidated, mostly because of my riding experience. My wife, in the front passenger seat, wasn’t intimidated either. She often rides with me, 2-up.”
By getting in front of you and slowing down to 60? Again, YOUR actions were far more aggressive than theirs. Why the hell would “your riding experience” keep you from being intimidated? Furthermore, if a big group of “large” and “burly” men were really trying to intimidate you, why would your wife’s time riding “bitch” keep her from being afraid? That makes no sense at all, and sounds…well, bs’y.
I belong to no MC, but have ridden with 81 (Hells Angels) a number of times. I’ve also seen packs, both large and small, of HA on the road, and have NEVER witnessed anything but safe and courteous riding. Whether or not some members of that or any MC have participated in criminal activity isn’t part of this discussion, but the very first “motorcycle gang riot” in Hollister in 1947 was a fraud perpetrated by a reporter looking to sell some newspapers. It was all BS, as is the vast majority of allegations made toward motorcycle clubs since. I’m sorry, but your story, for all of the reasons stated above, sounds to me like as much bovine excrement.
I know it’s all very exciting to stand up to a gang of outlaws in your minivan, impressing your wife and neighbors with the tale of your calm dealing with the situation. You’re a hero.
Sons of Anarchy is on again on Tuesday night. I’m sure you’re looking forward to it. The real world is JUST like that.
I might have said “good try,” in response to your little attempt at biker fiction, but I can’t. It’s not good. Pretty bad, in truth.
Um, welcome?
I’m surprised to see an update here, since it has been about 8 months.
If you don’t believe me and what I described here, that is your opinion and of course you’re entitled to that. I’m not going to get into a pissing contest.
I will state (again, I believe) that the group’s formation was not tight. It was very loose. There was quite a bit of room, many many yards, in the gap that I safely and smoothly merged over into. After signaling my intent. Anyone who regularly drives I-5 in California between Los Banos and the bottom of the grapevine, who like to drive a little faster and pass slower traffic know there’s a certain way that’s done here that I rarely see in other parts of the country or the world. Not that I’m super-well-travelled, but I have driven in several countries.
Anyway, I call that certain way “the I-5 dance.” Just my own term for it, and it’s a pretty consistent dance that predominates how many people drive on that stretch, and it all begins with the left lane road boulders on I-5 doing 75 in a 70 zone but still failing to ‘keep right except to pass,’ as the rule (and law) requires.
And, what Loach says, welcome to the SDMB and I hope you enjoy your time here.
Why bother the police? I’d have just given them a lift to the interstate.
[quote=“echo7tango, post:1, topic:653234”]
Well, the group clearly didn’t like it and the riders at the back moved up and surrounded me, passing me on the left and right. They were mere inches from the sides of my car, on both sides. None of them reached over to touch or punch my car, but they easily could have - while we’re all doing 80mph. One rider planted himself directly in front of me and slowed down to about 60, while the other riders worked past me.
For a moment I wondered if they were going to try and force me to slow down and try to move me to the side of the road.
If ya’ll rode in groups of guys that ride together you would know that if a car gets in between the group someone gets infront of the car and slows down allowing the other guys on bikes to pass and get back in the group. I would of been pissed off too if you cut in to my group. Next time just wai until you pass everyone to get over. They weren’t trying to get you to stop, just trying to let the other guys back in formation without having to go 90 to catch up. Not everyone on a bike is out to get you. Grow a pair and get some common sense.
First, welcome to the Dope, cossack, I hope you enjoy your time here.
I have done a little riding. maybe you missed that?
Question: How far apart can two distinctly separate groups of riders going 70 mph on an arrow-straight interstate highway, with miles of clear visibility on either side of the road, be and still be considered one group? 200 yards? 100 yards? 50 yards? 25 yards? 10 yards?
I went camping with my family a couple of weeks ago. (It’s a bit warmer here in Taiwan.)
We were driving up a canyon with plenty of switchbacks and such. One lane each way and not a lot of room for passing and no shoulder.
I’ve got my family, with small kids and a wife who gets car sick so although I’m not as slow as grandma would be, I’m not setting any speed records, either.
A group of bikers slowly overtakes us. They’re only going a bit faster than me, but it seemed to annoy the hell out of them that some one was in their way. I would have loved to have let them buzz by, but there really wasn’t anything else to do but continue.
So, we’d go for a while, then there would be a place where a small group could pass, and then the next bunch of riders would get stuck behind me.
They were all strung out. Maybe 75 to 100 of them? Some of them would be real dicks. They’d pass me then immediately slow down and come within inches of my front bumper. WTF? Did they just expect the whole road to pull over for their trip to the mountain?
I think there is some sort of mob mentality that clicks in.
Fuck your “formation”.
Welcome to the Dope.
They’re being dicks, probably annoyed because to them you are in their way. It definitely sucks when that happens. Fortunately things didn’t escalate, and kudos to you for not retaliating and therefore inviting an escalated response.
He said he signaled. So, just how does one ask for permission, and how is permission granted?
I think a turn signal shows one’s intent more than it asks permission. However, when changing lanes from one crowded lane to another, that’s more asking permission, and then permission is granted when (or if) the car next to you yields space for your lane change.
it felt intimidating, no question. A pack of guys acting aggressively.
I actually thought about your story while this was happening. It hit a fight or flight response and my first instinct was to fight, to be aggressive back, but my toddler doesn’t fight fair – he bites – so I didn’t want to have to get him involved.
Seriously, WTF. They would try to pass me on a two-lane, winding road at five mph faster than me. What did they expect, that I’d work my ass off to let them own the road? I was being courteous, pulling over as far as I could when they’d go to pass, and they thanked me by riding six inches in front of my bumper.
I don’t deserve any kudos for not retaliating. I can thank my first grade teacher for being able to count higher than my fingers and toes and knowing when I’m outnumbered.