That’s a direct lie. The etymology (from Latin “gradalis”, “dish”) is perfectly well known.
It is not a direct lie. I am not so gullible as to believe that dubious derivation. Gradalis would mean ‘gradually’ or by degrees, sounds more like an initiation rite. No, all the attributions of the grail as a physical object are merely to distract and confuse the uninitiated. It would make no sense except in a work of fiction for a bunch of knights to chase after a chalice/dish/stone whatever. The knowledge of the true heirs of Jesus, howver, would have enormous political significance and would be a means of challenging the illegitimate authority of the papacy. Thus the Knights Templar, guardians of the true secret and the Cathars, the true Christians, were all rubbed out by the papal mafiosos.
Any other interpretation is a direct lie.
The Cathars were not “true Christians”, they were bozo pseudo-mystics who were directly opposed to everything the Christian religion stands for; furthermore their doctrines were even more opposed to the ideas implicit in the 20th-century “sang real” cult; it would, in fact, have nauseated them. (None of that doesn’t excuse their suppression by violence, of course, but that’s a different issue.) In any case, the Knights Templar had nothing in particular to do with them. And it remains an attested fact that “gradalis” is a Latin word meaning “dish”.
And the idea that “it would make no sense except in a work of fiction for a bunch of knights to chase after a chalice/dish/stone whatever,” is positively risible, given Catholicism’s long fascination with relics.
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The Knights Templar were “rubbed out”, as you put it, mainly because of their wealth and power, and the Holy Grail had nothing to do with it.
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I’m not certain who the Cathars are, but, odds are, this was just your ordinary “church gets heritics” action, similar to what happened to the Hussits in Germany and the Lollards in England.
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Ever heard of the True Cross? Knights obsessed about finding pieces of that quite a bit. As John W. Kennedy said earlier, artifacts were a hot commodity in ths era.
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The use of the terms “illegitimate authority of the papacy” and “papal mafiosos” suggests that you are motivated, in part at least, by anti-Catholicism.
and, finally,
- Even if I was wrong with my previous comments, why does the Holy Grail not appear in literature or in any other form until over 1000 years after Christ’s death?
On a lighter note, the Grail has been found, but, sadly, it is in the hands of mean French knights who all sound vaguely like John Cleese.
I fart in your general direction!
BTW, what’s your favorite color?
Prince Michael of Albania is not the only true descendant of Jesus left in the world. The Inquisition did not wipe every member of this line off the Earth. The Inquisition FAILED!!!
Hmmm, I wasn’t expecting the Spanish Inquisition.
Hi all, first time here
Regarding the “sang real” theory of the bloodline of Christ, descendant of the ancient Egyptian royal bloodline, there is a historian in Scotland who has devoted a great deal of his time to deciphering this…
http://graal.co.uk/ : Tells you a little about the historian
http://www.karenlyster.com/quest.html : Tells you a lot about the theory.
Online volumes - - read “The Bloodline Of The Holy Grail” and “Genesis Of The Grail Kings”
If only my internet history went back 3 months instead of 3 weeks, I could give you more links.
Love
Earthstone
Ho-hum! This all continues to be bullshit for the brain-damaged.
Thanks for posting that info, Earthstone. It just goes to show that the posters that pretend to speak from authority here are often the source of the greatest ignorance.
GQ, it is plain as the gnose on my face that you are motivated by anti-mysticism. I am not anti-catholic per se, I just have a problem with people who:
Torture and murder those who disagree with them.
Pervert a great religion into an oppressive anti-spiritual government.
Oppress the world with guilt and ignorance.
Lecture to the poor about sacrifice from guilded altars.
Enslave, murder, and steal the land from indigenous people in the guise of religious enlightenment.
Rape young boys.
And even though they are they are one of the most influential PACs in the world, they are not taxed.
Etc.
Besides, the Spanish Inq. tortured the Marranos, the crypto-Jews, so if you support Catholicism, you must be anti-Semitic. Hah.
This forum is supposed to be related (however vaguely) to Cecil’s column. This thread is supposed to be about Cecil’s column about the Holy Grail.
If you want to start anti- or pro-Catholic rants, take them to the forum called “BBQ Pit” and be my guest. THere is nothing in your last post, Roger, that is even vaguely related to the Grail.
There is every indication that you are taking the actions of a small number of people (perhaps influential, but still a small number) to condemn a whole group. This is called “stereotyping” and it is consider (a) bad form, and (b) stupid, and © offensive.Consider this a formal and official warning. There will be no more debate in this thread. Back to the Grail.
I’m sorry but I simply can not see how a 2,000 year old cup still exists today.
The Grail doesn’t exist today because it never existed. But there are hundreds if not thousands of cups and other similar objects 2000 or more years old in museums all over the world.
It is too bad that there are so many small-minded and close-minded people on this discussion board!!! People do not know their true history because the Christians burned the Library at Alexandria, killed people, burned ancient Aztec texts, all to cover up history so that they could re-write it to suit their beliefs!!! This is really sad and pathetic!!!
I guess you’ve never been to a museum.
Well, a cup existed at the Last Supper, but there is no reason to believe it was preserved.
Yeah, especially the semi-literates who read nutcase books and immediately think they know everything there is to know about history.
This “sang real” crapola is so far off the map that real historians aren’t yet even bothering to deny it. Since it is now right up there with the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” (Note to moderators. That’s not a random insult; on the contrary, it is – unfortunately – an objective fact; just Google and you’ll see), I suppose someone will have to get around to it, taking valuable time away from real work, just as a few academics have to waste time addressing anti-Stratfordianism. In the meantime, I’ve actually read the relevant material, and I’ll say it again: the “sang real” stuff is bullshit, and increasingly dangerous bullshit.
Pardon me for not bowing down to your mighty knowledge of history. You are the king of all knowledge. I guess I should cowtow and toe the line of conservatism and kill my dreams and join the rest of the sheeple who follow you and hang on your every word.
No, I am not the “king of all knowledge.” But I have actually read most of the original Grail literature, which I suspect you have not, I have studied Christian theology at a graduate level, which I suspect you have not, and I have discussed the matter with one of the world’s leading experts on Arthurian literature, which I am quite certain you have not. I have also inspected several of the obscene and disgusting websites pushing the “sang real” garbage. What started out as mere bozo-tude has quickly degenerated into a virtual clone of Naziism.
It’s not an uncommon pattern, I suppose. Look at Lord Burford, who started out as a mere anti-Stratfordian, or the relatively quaint British-Israelite sect that gave birth to the modern US white-power cults. Once you start to abandon reason, it’s a quick downhill trip.
Well you must be a specialist at this like I am a specialist at working dogs. History is my second subject behind True Working K9s. I do not have a fancy university degree like you do. Email me some good websites to look at so I can see your viewpoint. Otherwise, we will agree to disagree about this subject.
I keep telling you, real historians are too busy to waste time with this stuff. You could, however, go back to the original reviews ca. 1982, the one time their attention was forced to the issue.
If you want the basics – start by reading the actual books. Read Le Conte du Graal by Chrétien de Troyes. Read Parzifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach. Read La Queste du Saint Graal, either in the basic Penguin version, or, better, the five-volume Garland edition by Norris Lacy, et al., that translates the entire text of the original Prose Lancelot and the later version known to scholars as the “Post-Vulgate” (many medieval books don’t have have original titles; scholars have to make one up and agree on it, so that they can keep straight what they’re talking about). But the Garland edition is hard to find, and costs several hundred dollars; about 95% of copies are in university libraries. Anyway, look at what these stories have in common and what they do not have in common, and try to put together a “secret meaning” that makes sense for all of them at once. You won’t be able to.
And note that “Saint Graal” sounds about as much like “Sang Real” as “Holy Grail” sounds like “Hell Girl”. (Moreover, in Chrétien, the earliest text, it’s plain “un Graal” – “le Saint” only came in later.)
Note again that the Grail stories have a clear family connection to Celtic legends of pre-Christian origin.
And if you spend a little time studying church history, you will find that, until the modern period, the important sects in opposition to (small-o) orthodox Christianity were sects that put “material” and “spiritual” into opposition, who called all matter, and the human body in particular, evil; many of them denied that Jesus had a body at all. If Jesus and Mary Magdalene (or anyone else) had had a child, it would have been the Catholics who pressed the point, and their enemies who denied it, not the other way around.
These are the basics. I do not have the resources (in particular, I know only a little Old French) to do what I would regard as an adequate scholarly, point-by-point refutation. But you don’t need to be a shrink to know that someone who sticks his hand in his vest and tells you he’s Napoleon has got problems, and I don’t need to be a professional medievalist to know that the authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail are immigrants from Outer Woowooland.
I have, at any rate, put out an alert to Arthurian specialists, warning them that this story is beginning to spread, and that something is going to have to be done about it, waste of time or not.