Thoughts on The Mahabharata

[Anaamika]

@truthSeeker2

same here. I am particular about it.
I make compromise on one word - दिल्ली:), which becomes Delhi. Most people say Delhi in English so I have to say Delhi many times, but just this one word.

At least “delhi” sounds pretty. (Tell you what, though, growing up the University of Del-HI really confused the piss out of me.)

It’s the same reason I rarely use my legal first name - I happen to think it’s a beautiful name and I hate having it butchered at me, so I go by my nick. Though I have noticed in the last ten years or so, more and more people pronounce it properly at first go. I think this is a result of there being just that many more immigrants to this country, with funny-sounding names.

But everything else I pronounce properly. I’ve actually had people yell at me for not saying Ganges. Pardon me if I don’t subscribe to the Western way of saying Indian things! Yes, I am aware I live in the West.

[truthSeeker2]

@Seymour Guts

At least “delhi” sounds pretty. (Tell you what, though, growing up the University of Del-HI really confused the piss out of me.)

It’s the same reason I rarely use my legal first name - I happen to think it’s a beautiful name and I hate having it butchered at me, so I go by my nick. Though I have noticed in the last ten years or so, more and more people pronounce it properly at first go. I think this is a result of there being just that many more immigrants to this country, with funny-sounding names.

But everything else I pronounce properly. I’ve actually had people yell at me for not saying Ganges. Pardon me if I don’t subscribe to the Western way of saying Indian things! Yes, I am aware I live in the West.

My first name would seem to start with a “why” to a person not from south Asia. But my nick name is “vicky” , which is fine.

[FlyingRat]

I haven’t read the Mahabharata personally, but I just found out about last year’s animated movie entitled Arjun: The Warrior Prince. Trailer here. I’m very much hoping this comes out in the USA.

[Anaamika]

@truthSeeker2

My first name would seem to start with a “why” to a person not from south Asia. But my nick name is “vicky” , which is fine.

Check your PMs.

[truthSeeker2]

@FlyingRat

I haven’t read the Mahabharata personally, but I just found out about last year’s animated movie entitled Arjun: The Warrior Prince. Trailer here. I’m very much hoping this comes out in the USA.

Thanks for sharing.
Found an animated Ramayana on youtube in English.

[Almace]

@truthSeeker2

Very good question.
This is my understanding -
In spoken Hindi, we pronounce Karn not karna, Raam not Rama etc (but Dronacharya is Dronacharya only).
It is written hindi to English translation rules which give rise to “a” at the end.

रा + म = Raam sound in spoken hndi.

So as per written hindi to english translation rule -

Raam is not equal to रा + म =( र + आ + म + अ ).
Rama = रा + म =( र + आ + म + अ ).

Thank you very much for the explanation. Leave it to English to mess with everything it comes into contact with.

[truthSeeker2]

@Almace

Thank you very much for the explanation. Leave it to English to mess with everything it comes into contact with.

We Indians can also be quite ruthless to English the way we speak it sometimes.

Also, hearing how a few other languages sound (for example Mandarin), I dread to think how transliteration would work for them.

[Anaamika]

@Almace

Thank you very much for the explanation. Leave it to English to mess with everything it comes into contact with.

Heh. Don’t get me wrong, I love English. I think it’s a beautiful, complex language. Plus you guys can do the Y-M-C-A which our languages can NEVER do.

[Damfino]

@CalMeacham

I’ve always wanted to read it, but was daunted by the length. It’s on my “to read, eventually” stack, like Don Quixote and The Tale of Genji. Unlike those, though, I don’t actually own a physical copy.

I’ve read the Bhagavad-Gita, but that’s only a religious sliver of the whole.

All I’ve actually read is the two-page version of it (!! He calls it “The Very Short Version”) in the second volume of Larry Gonick’s Cartoon History of the Universe (pp. 20-21. You can look inside the book here, but, unfortunately, you can’t view the relevant pages: The Cartoon History of the Universe II, Volumes 8-13: From the Springtime of China to the Fall of Rome: Gonick, Larry: 9780385420938: Amazon.com: Books )

Try the versions by C Rajagopalachari , incidentally first Indian Governor General , which are comparatively short and easily comprehensible . They were my introduction to the epic and very memorable .

[Almace]

@Seymour Guts

To add to your last point, India or Bharat is actually named after the first king in the Mahabharat, the one who decided that none of his sons were worthy of being king, and kingship should not be decided by blood alone, and that he should pick a worthy outsider to be king and rule his people.

Actually, I just made the connection between Sakuntala’s story as the mother of Bharat and the Mahabharat. I had read the Kalidasa version and hadn’t made the connection for some reason that she was an ancestor of the Pandavas and Kauravas. The version of the Mahabarat that I am reading didn’t include her story but while reading Thapar’s lectures I recognized the name Bharat from what you had said and found the Mahabharat version of Sakuntala’s story. I found the Mahabharat version much more interesting and meaningful as she is portrayed as a true character with depth and force of will. It had struck me as odd that in the Kalidasa the mother of the great king was so passive.

[Anaamika]

And Indian mothers are anything but passive!

[Johanna]

The inherent short vowel -a is pronounced in Sanskrit, (generally) not pronounced in Hindi. When pronouncing Sanskrit as Sanskrit, e.g. in reciting the Vedas, the inherent short vowel -a always gets pronounced. When pronouncing Sanskrit words embedded in a Hindi utterance—this is called tatsama—the vowel isn’t (generally) pronounced. Somebody who habitually speaks Hindi but is not a Sanskrit professor or a Veda reciter will naturally pronounce the Sanskrit names without that vowel. Neither of these approaches is “wrong.” They just apply to different contexts.

[KKKK]

@Anaamika

Karn is simply stating that he has no other goal in life other than to bring about Arjun’s death and then his own. And killing yourself is literally called “kudkushi” in Hindi, which means “self-joy”, which just demonstrates how selfish Hinduism thinks it is. So he cannot kill himself, but his death may come about some other way. As to killing Arjun, I don’t know at what point this conversation took place, but I am guessing it is after Karn discovers he is Kunti’s illigitimate son, and therefore the eldest brother, and Elder Brother is not exactly supposed to murder his little brothers…he’s supposed to protect them and be their moral guide. So he can’t get that one.

Duryodhan is a simple guy and not very smart, not like Karn, who is a tragic figure and very, very intelligent. So he thinks Karn is talking about two pretty girls, when actually Karn is talking about the two driving forces of his life.

"And killing yourself is literally called “kudkushi” in Hindi, which means “self-joy”

Actually, it doesn’t. The Hindi (from Sanskrit) is “atmahatya”. “Khudkushi” is Urdu and is literally self (khud) killing (kushi). “Joy” / happiness is “khushi”.

[Anaamika]

@KKKK

"And killing yourself is literally called “kudkushi” in Hindi, which means “self-joy”

Actually, it doesn’t. The Hindi (from Sanskrit) is “atmahatya”. “Khudkushi” is Urdu and is literally self (khud) killing (kushi). “Joy” / happiness is “khushi”.

Thanks for the correction. Atmahatya, of course, is “soul-murder” I believe, if I am not mistaken.

I always forget, being Punjabi, I have sooo much Urdu and Punjabi mixed up in my dialect I don’t even really speak true Hindi.