if someone repeatedly did this in open space then that’s not an accident. In a crowded area it’s going to happen. I’ve had many women squeeze by me in a bar and her breasts or ass brush by me or the person on the other side of her. Nothing I can do about it and it’s not sexual in any way. Someone like kim kardashian is all ass and tits. She’s a human bowling ball in a crowd. I’m not dismissing actual perverts trying to brush up against a woman. I got fondled once by a women sitting on a low wall in a busy venue. She stuck her foot out and groped my crotch from behind. She was very drunk and highly amused by it.
Again, if someone cat called me and started walking next to me I’d take it as a threat. The cat calls by themselves indicate a breakdown in the social fabric and that’s what we see in the video.
In the other thread Bricker has insisted that when he greets strangers walking past, he doesn’t expect reciprocation. You’d disagree, I take it, that no reciprocation is expected in general in these situations?
Are you guys *really *surprised about Shagnasty’s misogyny? He’s the one who has posted about how proud he was of sexually assaulting a friend’s girlfriend, and that the only reason he didn’t actually rape her was that she was on her period.
If you are being “assaulted” by a simple “How do you do” or the equivalent without “baby’ or honey” attached, then yes you need to turn your OffendoMeter down a notch. I can easily believe that women are oppressed by truly offensive shout out behavior when it happens, but the instances of it happening anywhere in the US outside of bar settings, drinking venues, poor neighborhoods or places where unemployed people hang out is statistically microscopic.
It’s the notion that the video is banging the drum saying this is a REAL BIG PROBLEM for women in the US EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME, SO STOP IT!! that’s absurd. That’s abject nonsense. When it happens 99% of the time it’s happening in one of the aforesaid scenarios. The video is direct proof of this.
It’s these kind of over the top dramatic claims that make people dismiss true harassment when it happens and that does not serve anyone’s interests.
Who said she’s being assaulted? This is so typically how it goes… women will say “guys, don’t do this – this is bad behavior, and it can make women feel uncomfortable”… and some aggrieved dude comes back with “It isn’t assault or rape! Quit being so damn sensitive – if you can’t survive this stuff, then you’ll never get through the real tough parts of life!”.
No. It’s simple – this sort of behavior can make women feel uncomfortable, so men shouldn’t do it. It’s not assault, it’s not rape, it’s not murder. This isn’t the end of the world. But it’s a thing that some men do that they shouldn’t do, and those who do it should be criticized.
Sure! Absolutely! So … since it seems that the vast majority of this shout out behavior is perpetrated by underclass men of color in the context of their residential neighborhoods or venues where they choose to hang out, we need to target that population. I don’t think (just a guess) that most of them have their cell numbers listed on LinkedIn so we need to confront them in person, face to face, and tell them that their public shout out behavior is shameful and wrong.
How would you suggest we implement this initiative? What is the best way to publicly shame poor Black and Hispanic men into being better people?
:rolleyes: Yeah, I’m sure that people who have a history of being persecuted or outright killed for so much as looking at a white woman will react well to that.
It is equally fodder for the left. Plain old liberal, no extreme. Kind of person who would never catcall. More smoke is resulting from the competing parties for sympathy or explanation, women and economically downtrodden minorities–both of which supposedly are of more exquisite concern from the left.
Which will emerge victorious? How will the square be circled? I know…"I’ll only note it, saying only ultra KKKs really note it, and if I do this time, it is only to say that what I have noted topic is off the table.
As a conservative, that aspect amuses me, irespective of the subject of cat-calling.
Your posts imply that the only people involved in this conversation are women and poor iinnocent middle-class white men. As if those “poor Blacks and Hispanics” that you speak of so condescendingly aren’t seeing the video and aren’t privy to the dialogue. These folks make up a sizeable chunk of the US population and they indeed inhabit the social mediasphere. So there’s no need for “innocent” white males to feel any particular way. If you aren’t catcalling or harrassing anyone, then you don’t have anything to defend or apologize for. YOU AREN’T THE SUBJECT OF THIS CONVERSATION. Period.
It is you who is making crazy assumptions and playing the “victim” card here.
No “white guys” aren’t playing the “victim” here, they’re not really playing at all. They’re looking at the “THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH FROM MEN!” claims of public harassment contained in the catcalling video and scratching their heads in wonder and going “WTF are you talking about we rarely, if ever, do that shit.”
Re “poor Blacks and Hispanics” I’m making the point that these men were obviously cherry picked and targeted by this video when they couldn’t find enough middle class responses worth recording and now this video is perfect ammo for racists wanting to denigrate those populations. Catcalling rude comments is offensive and indefensible, but all this video does is say “Hey… heads up female pedestrians Black and Hispanic guys are scary and will harass and stalk you!”
No, it doesn’t seem that this is the case – multiple men in the video were white, and the anecdotal reports of women in this thread indicate that the problem exists across racial groups.
You want to make an argument to convince me of something? Give me the numbers. How many men did she pass? How many of each race? How many of each race “harassed” her (however we define that)? The data exist. Yes, it’d be a lot of work to go through and count, but then, it was a lot of work to get the footage in the first place, and to edit it down. And if someone makes a video like this and doesn’t give me the numbers, I’m going to assume that they’re trying to deceive me somehow or another.
This shouldn’t be necessary. This isn’t a drastic, world-beater of a problem. Men should not behave in ways that have a decent chance of making a woman feel uncomfortable. We shouldn’t need statistics to suggest that men who behave in these ways ought to change this behavior.
Not a huge problem, and not at all a huge solution.
If only it were like this. Have you been in the pit thread? There’s been a range of responses from (presumably) white men. From “OMG, this is terrible!” to “They were just being NICE! What’s the big deal!?” Even in this thread there have been comments like that. Do you think those latter comments are coming from posters who are poor black and Hispanic guys from Harlem from broken homes? Or could they be white men who are using this as yet another opportunity to showcase their empathy impairment when it comes to women and sexuality.?
Racists don’t need “perfect ammo”. And it’s actually not perfect, since there are white men in that video acting obnoxiously. Guess those white men don’t count? Nor the anecdotes shared by me and other women in this thread about white men?
Women don’t need to see a video like this to know what happens when you are out in public and look certain way. It is rare for a woman to have NEVER experienced something like this in her life. So we don’t need our eyes opened.
But it seems to me that men–even white men who would never DREAM of harrassing a woman–might get something out of that video. I have a (white male) coworker who is always talking about women walking around with “bitchfaces”. He has told me that I have a “bitchface” when he’s caught me out in public. Maybe if he watches that video for five seconds, he’ll understand why that bitchface serves a purpose. He’s just being a “nice guy” when he tells a young woman to smile. Most women understand this. But a woman shouldn’t have to sacrifice her comfort and security just so he can see yet another pretty smiling face on the bus ride home. Maybe if he watches that video, he will be able to see something he wouldn’t otherwise be able to. Maybe, just maybe, he will try to empathize with a woman instead of lecturing her on how she “should” feel.