Thoughts/opinions on Waldorf schools, please!

In My Humble Opinion
21

At my school, I wouldn’t say the science was wrong (I think it greatly depends on the specific teacher anyhow), but it was pretty watered down. Let me explain. In place of learning a lot of formulas and being rigorously tested on them, the focus was more on just “experiencing” the process of basic science (observation, hypothesis, prediction, etc), and thinking about it, whether right or wrong. There were probably more poems about science and drawings of experiments done than in a normal school ;). But I’m not sure this is really so bad. IMO a lot of pre-college science/math at any school is, in a way, worthless if you just memorize a lot of formulas. This may be unfair (certainly some teachers at any school are better than others), but I think in general it is true that most students even at public schools come away from science without having really “learned” a whole lot, even if they are technically further ahead than Waldorf students in standardized testing.

For myself, I learned virtually nothing in my science classes at Waldorf school, but I was self-motivated and ahead of everyone anyways, so it wasn’t their fault. The sense I got was that, as a private school, they had a whole lot more leeway in teacher hiring than a public school. Yes, you could get some bad teachers who want to teach homeopathy etc, but you can also have some very good teachers that you wouldn’t ordinarily get at a public school. It is probably highly variable, and really they are just hiring teachers who are sort of good intentioned hippies (they are not all anthroposophists). A lot of time good intentioned hippies are competent, and a lot of times they are not.

Yes, it was clear that many of the teachers subscribed to such beliefs, but it was not shoved down our throats. I don’t think any of us students ended up being brainwashed in this regard, beyond what their parents had done to them anyways.

I graduated the high school in the late 90’s.

Yeah, it was “in the air” but not openly discussed. A lot of the art, the architecture, and of course the Eurythmy, were clearly Anthroposophic. But it was low key enough that you could easily mistake it for just any sort of silly new age thing, you know? There were a couple times when someone came to sort of guest lecture us with some propaganda, but it was not worked into the core curriculum. For example, our reading lists were pretty good in high school, nothing more out of left field than Hermann Hesse, and I don’t recall reading any Rudolf Steiner or his followers.

Ultimately I think these guys are harmless. I mean, yes, alternative medicine can be bad, but this is not restricted by any means to anthroposophy. It’s also just a hippy sort of thing. The Eurythmy is really silly, but hey, that’s not so bad, it’s even kind of cute and disarming. I mean, imagine taking a jock you yells ‘fag’ at people, and making him do eurythmy. Couldn’t hurt in my book. I also personally think that most real academic learning is done in college. And the Waldorf school, while not ostensibly the best in terms of college preparation, did seem to get a lot of students into some prestigious schools, who seem to do just fine. Go figure.

22

[shrug] Still sounds like a better education than you’d get from the Full Gospel Pentecostal Day School. Or from (most) homeschooling.

Perhaps, but those are vastly cheaper and don’t AFAIK make grandiose claims of superior instruction.

Not necessarily and Pentecostal/Evangelical/Mennonite/Christian schools absolutely make claims to superior instruction. Superior instruction in maths and sciences, no. Biblical teaching, creationism, indoctrination, sexism and bigotry? Oh yes. That’s kinds the main point. My sister was sent to a private christian school in 9th grade. Non-accredited. 2% of graduates went on to college. High school educated teacher, also not accredited. My parents somehow seemed shocked when it was pointed out that this type of schooling is not exactly conducive to success in college or life in general. Luckily they pulled her out, although she had to repeat the grade since you know, that whole not really getting any actual education thing.

Crystals, dancing and homeopathy? Doesn’t sound nearly as harmful as learning forced female subservience, how to picket clinics and 6000 yr creationism.

23

My dad sent me to a full on religious school of the Christian variety. And he made me picket abortion clinics when I was about eight years old. :confused:

My sciences up to about 8th grade were pretty good. I can still remember some of my lessons. My math was great, my English was superb. My Bible history was (vomit) extremely solid. Most of us were in the 97th-99th percentile for ITBS tests. They aren’t all terrible, and these were the kinds of people that thought only freaks and blacks got AIDs and that God made the world in 7 days. Yes, there was the box in in the book that talked about the ‘holes’ in evolution and it was rather unfortunate to be brought up in the typical myths of American history (which are nearly identical in public schools), but I’m glad I had that over the other schooling options in my area. As my mom put it, “They may be Evangelical assholes, but you also had to read three Dickens books and three Shakespearean plays in the seventh grade.”

I think that any school with a focus on excellence and academics – even if it’s religious – will suit a child well enough. Waldorf doesn’t really emit that, though.

24

Thanks for all your interesting answers, especially iamnotbatman. Perhaps I’m being a worry wart. But I cannot help wondering where she would be and what kind of kid she would be if she had had a ‘real’ education. Maybe worse off, who can say?

Still, I think the whole Waldorf thing is super wacky. And I find their standoffish stance to their own core philosophy (Anthroposophy) highly suspicious. What gives?

-BB

25

My guess based on my experience within the system is that they have difficulty attracting students/teachers if they push their core philosophy too hard, so in practice they have compromised in order to keep themselves afloat. If I had to guess, fewer than 20% of the teachers at my school were true anthroposophists, and fewer than 5% of the graduated students ended up subscribing to the philosophy.

Think about how it would work if you wanted to start some school based on some obscure philosophy. Well, you’ll have to hire teachers, and get enough students so that your school can be financially sustainable. You would have to adjust and compromise in various ways in order to make a successful school. And certainly many of the teachers you would hire wouldn’t hold your exact philosophy, though they may have enough overlap so that they feel comfortable with the job, so long as you don’t push them too hard. There will be some friction, and be some higher-ups with a more hard-line about the philosophy, but they will quickly find that they only have so much control, and that if they push too hard they risk alienating the parents of students who are just trying to find a liberal/hippy private school for their kid, and who, while they have a few overlapping sensibilities with your philosophy, don’t subscribe to it wholly as you do. Most parents are going to be like this, considering that anthroposophy is so obscure. It’s not like Catholicism, which is common enough to attract a large student/teacher population, most of whom may actually call themselves “Catholic.” Not so with an obscure philosophy like anthroposophy. It is inevitable that in order for such a school to survive it will probably have to adapt in such a way so as to be sensitive enough to its patrons that it’s core beliefs are not flaunted. That said, nothing is really “hidden.” They say straight-up on their websites what their core beliefs are, and where they are coming from.

Just my 2c

26

Now see, I can almost sort of get this. It’s not as unusual prospect as it might seem at first glance, though by biography, it is usually meant as a “biography.” Witness, Havana. Such titles aren’t all that uncommon. They’re usually a more conversational take on history, trying to evoke the “flavor” of the geographic entity, almost like they were a person.

However I’d regard that sort of thing to be a kinda advanced project for an 8th grader. Given the circumstances I think your skepticism is well-founded.

27

My daughter (who just turned 4) has been attending a Waldorf school for the last year or so, and I must say that I am quite happy with it. Now, this is in Khon Kaen, Thailand, so I have no doubt the curriculum is vastly different from what you’d get in the EU or the USA.

The way it works here is that the little kids (less than 7 years old or so) basically play, do arts and crafts, and practice telling stories all day. My daughter loves it, and the teachers there are the best I’ve found in the entire city. I’m not a huge fan of actively discouraging the kids from learning reading until they are 7, but I have read the research supporting it regarding brain chemistry changes and such, and it seems not crazy. The best things about it are clearly the lack of pressure put on the kids, the freedom to play and be creative, and the fact that the kids are not sitting in desks all day.

Would I go with this option in America? Hard to say. It would depend on what else was available.

The only woo I have noticed (and believe me, I’ve looked!) is the fact that they do Buddhist prayer and some meditation in class, despite the fact that their teacher comes from a Muslim family. I’m OK with that, though. There was one incident where the teacher, who is just amazing generally, was apparently having a bad day and threatened a kid that a ghost would eat his liver or something if he didn’t stop doing something.

I was floored when my daughter told me about this - but my wife assures me that this is actually a normal thing to say to kids in Thailand. I’ve armed my daughter with a good question if it ever comes up again, though. I’ve told her to ask the teacher if that would really happen. My guess if the teacher would back down after that.

28

So what’s this about research supporting the idea of discouraging kids from reading until 7?

Is there supposed to be some actual harm that comes from letting them read earlier than that?

29

I don’t know about real research, but my impression is that they have developed some rationalization based around the vague notion that pushing them to learn to read at an early age rather than the more natural-for-them oral learning and creativity, is stifling. I’m skeptical and would hesitate to keep my own children from learning to read at an early age, but I can’t say they are wrong; certainly the students I know who have come out of the system are accomplished readers, and don’t appear to have any systematic deficits. They are also more creative and deeper people IMO, though personally I attribute that simply to coming from more affluent and quirky families.

30

A fellow student of mine in grad school (studying mathematics) went to a Steiner school as a kid, too. I think her experiences were similar to iamnotbatman’s (i.e. it was a bit flaky, but not ultimately harmful), although she had the extra flakiness of living in some kind of hippie commune at the time.

31

A little late in the game, but I think this is a better fit for IMHO than Great Debates.

32

I hear their salads are excellent.

33

I used to think they sounded cool. Then I found out they’re full of woo, to the extent that many involved literally believe in elves and shit. And they evidently have racist underpinnings. So they quickly graduated to “oh hell no” in my book.

34

My mother student taught at a Waldorf school in the early 50s and speaks very highly of it. She went on to be a career public school teacher. She’s not a nut or into Anthroposophy. The way she’d explain the school was that it taught by doing and becoming involved in the entire process of something (carpentry or whatever). This was at kindergarten level and I don’t think there was a high school (or at least she never mentioned it).

35

We have a Waldorf school in town that’s a public charter, so that probably cuts down on the woo a little bit. The people at the school (teachers and parents) are very nice, very hippie-dippy. A friend of mine teaches there and has his son in the school; son is very ADHD and seems to be happier there because they allow more movement and often integrate movement into learning.

They have some things that I consider to be very cool–they recite math facts in an order that has the kids stepping from the floor to their chairs, to onto their desks, and down again. They do other language work while walking along balance beams that get higher with grade level. So some kind of neat things.

But they also have the traditional Waldorf dwarf math that tells stories about the numbers. Way too woo for me. Their test scores are not high. I have no idea what their science is like, but their handicrafts are great (and I’m not saying that handicrafts are bad, they are excellent for brain development and such). I’m pretty sure every pot grower in town sends their kids there.

I would not send my kids there, but my goals are not Waldorf goals (I do classical homeschooling). Some people love it. Also, the school doesn’t go into high school.

36

My husband and his brother went to one up until middle school and spoke very highly of their time at that school. They are both very successful in their fields - engineering & computers. If one was closer to me I might send my own daughter to one but she is going to go to Montessori instead.